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Mithras stats in Fall of London

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  • Mithras stats in Fall of London

    MITHRAS AT FULL STRENGTH:

    ATTRIBUTES:
    Strength 5,
    Dexterity 5, Stamina 4; Charisma 5,
    Manipulation 5, Composure 3;
    Intelligence 4, Wits 5, Resolve 5

    SECONDARY ATTRIBUTES:
    Health 7, Willpower 8

    SKILLS:
    Athletics 4, Brawl (Grappling) 5, Melee (Swords) 4,
    Stealth 3, Survival (War) 4;
    Etiquette 3, Insight (Emotions) 5,
    Intimidation (Interrogation) 5,
    Leadership (Command) 5,
    Performance 3, Persuasion (Cult) 5,
    Subterfuge 5; Academics
    (History) 4, Awareness 3,
    Occult (Mithraic Mysteries) 4,
    Medicine 3, Politics (Military) 3

    BLOOD POTENCY:
    8

    DISCIPLINES:
    Animalism 2,
    Auspex 3, Blood Sorcery
    (Quietus) 3, Celerity 3,
    Dominate 5, Fortitude 5,
    Obfuscate 2, Potence 4,
    Presence 5, Protean 2

    So what do guys think? ​He seems to be better off then Helena in V5. Obviously elder powers are gone but it seems like a nice spread to me. He got a bunch of discliplines he didn't have before.




  • #2
    Originally posted by blackshade View Post
    MITHRAS AT FULL STRENGTH:

    ATTRIBUTES:
    Strength 5,
    Dexterity 5, Stamina 4; Charisma 5,
    Manipulation 5, Composure 3;
    Intelligence 4, Wits 5, Resolve 5

    SECONDARY ATTRIBUTES:
    Health 7, Willpower 8

    SKILLS:
    Athletics 4, Brawl (Grappling) 5, Melee (Swords) 4,
    Stealth 3, Survival (War) 4;
    Etiquette 3, Insight (Emotions) 5,
    Intimidation (Interrogation) 5,
    Leadership (Command) 5,
    Performance 3, Persuasion (Cult) 5,
    Subterfuge 5; Academics
    (History) 4, Awareness 3,
    Occult (Mithraic Mysteries) 4,
    Medicine 3, Politics (Military) 3

    BLOOD POTENCY:
    8

    DISCIPLINES:
    Animalism 2,
    Auspex 3, Blood Sorcery
    (Quietus) 3, Celerity 3,
    Dominate 5, Fortitude 5,
    Obfuscate 2, Potence 4,
    Presence 5, Protean 2

    So what do guys think? ​He seems to be better off then Helena in V5. Obviously elder powers are gone but it seems like a nice spread to me. He got a bunch of discliplines he didn't have before.


    Weak af. I remember reading somewhere that they would taking off protean from him, but here he are with it.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll just autoquote.


      Because what's the sense of Ur-Shulgi taking over the Assamite Clan? Or Baba Yaga imposing herself on Russia? Why is Kemintiri still at large, if probably she is not much more powerful than many Justicars are? Why no one has ever dethroned Mithras in all these centuries, and why a small army was needed to take down Marcus Vitel?
      Why the elders were what they were , if, the end, the difference is often 1 or 2 dice?

      Cthulhu is not Cthulhu if you can punch him, and a big horror element of Vampire was how little you were amidst the plots of god-like creatures who had left their humanity back a long time ago.
      Now, if you can punch Cthulhu, then fuck Cthulhu, let's punch him. The same goes for Helena :she is now the usual level 18 Red Dragon, sure it is big, but we will kill the bastard.

      Those kind of stats are simply not compatible with the lore of what Methuselah are, and what they did.
      Last edited by Undead rabbit; 01-31-2020, 08:40 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree the Methuselah's have lost their wow factor in V5. It's hard to take Mithras seriously with those stats, when he consideres himself a god. But still within the current system it's not that bad. Atleast he has discliplines he should have had in the past. I mean he didn't even have Auspex back in the day. How can you survive for millennia, when you have the senses of a cow?

        Ironically, his overall stats are higher then what they were in V20. That just shows how heavily understatted he was.
        Last edited by blackshade; 01-31-2020, 08:48 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Remember that those stats should be compared also to what you had at the time. Helena and Mithras stats were underwelming compared to modern 4th gen stats, but at the time Helena was still the second most powerful character of Chicago By Night. And much of the lore about them was not established yet.

          The real problem is that there are plenty of people in Chicago By Night 5ed that could take down Helena, while almost none could in Chicago By Night 1° and 2nd ed.

          (Even more, at the time 4th gen had special rules, like the fact that they could heal Aggravated damage like it was lethal...)

          Last edited by Undead rabbit; 01-31-2020, 08:56 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
            Remember that those stats should be compared also to what you had at the time. Helena and Mithras stats were underwelming compared to modern 4th gen stats, but at the time Helena was still the second most powerful character of Chicago By Night. And much of the lore about them was not established yet.

            The real problem is that there are plenty of people in Chicago By Night 5ed that could take down Helena, while almost none could in Chicago By Night 1° and 2nd ed.

            (Even more, at the time 4th gen had special rules, like the fact that they could heal Aggravated damage like it was lethal...)
            True. The early methuselahs were weaker stat wise. Mithras was pretty much made out to be the most powerful vampire out there (not counting antes) but his stats didn't support that.

            But in V5, I suppose the beckoning is the easy answer for this mess. They are resisting the beckoning, hence they are weaker. It's not a satisfying anwer but it's an answer nonetheless.

            Comment


            • #7
              I just flat out think you should leave a 4th generation Mithras or Helena as statless.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

              Comment


              • #8
                Removing elder powers even from Meths was a mistake.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by blackshade View Post
                  MITHRAS AT FULL STRENGTH:

                  ATTRIBUTES:
                  Strength 5,
                  Dexterity 5, Stamina 4; Charisma 5,
                  Manipulation 5, Composure 3;
                  Intelligence 4, Wits 5, Resolve 5

                  SECONDARY ATTRIBUTES:
                  Health 7, Willpower 8

                  SKILLS:
                  Athletics 4, Brawl (Grappling) 5, Melee (Swords) 4,
                  Stealth 3, Survival (War) 4;
                  Etiquette 3, Insight (Emotions) 5,
                  Intimidation (Interrogation) 5,
                  Leadership (Command) 5,
                  Performance 3, Persuasion (Cult) 5,
                  Subterfuge 5; Academics
                  (History) 4, Awareness 3,
                  Occult (Mithraic Mysteries) 4,
                  Medicine 3, Politics (Military) 3

                  BLOOD POTENCY:
                  8

                  DISCIPLINES:
                  Animalism 2,
                  Auspex 3, Blood Sorcery
                  (Quietus) 3, Celerity 3,
                  Dominate 5, Fortitude 5,
                  Obfuscate 2, Potence 4,
                  Presence 5, Protean 2

                  So what do guys think? ​He seems to be better off then Helena in V5. Obviously elder powers are gone but it seems like a nice spread to me. He got a bunch of discliplines he didn't have before.


                  I heavily disliked his stats.

                  If only the amalgam of disciplines he had were there in order to reflect what he could do back in oWoD system, then that at least would help us comprehend on how much of what methuselah's did in previous editions can be reflected in V5, but no.

                  Btw. Roger de Camden being 5th gen was really weird... his body swap ritual actually lowered his generation.

                  - Saga

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    huh,guys? what if my character wants to take down Mithras? shouldn't he have fighting chance?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                      huh,guys? what if my character wants to take down Mithras? shouldn't he have fighting chance?

                      I don't know. Shouldn't Samwsie have a fighting chance against Saruman? Or shouldn't your level 4 character have a chance to take down Elminster? Or your street-samurai against Ghostwalker?

                      Or, shouldn't I have a chance to beat Mike Tyson in a boxing contest or to out-manouver Angela Merkel?

                      It depends on who your character is. If he is a nobody he will not , If he is a peer than it's another story.
                      And that's true for the same reason I can't bankrupt Mark Zuckenber, oust Angela Merkel or beat Mike Tyson ass. Because in life there are "Weight Classes", and just wanting something (stupid) doesn't mean I will get a chance to do it.

                      If you want to kick Mithras ass, you should play an elder campaign. A Coterie of Elders might do it.
                      If your characters are normal vampires, than no, Mithras is beyond their level.
                      Last edited by Undead rabbit; 02-01-2020, 04:14 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post


                        I don't know. Shouldn't Samwsie have a fighting chance against Saruman?
                        Saruman gets killed by Wormtongue. Samwise is instrumental in Sauron's death. Pippin and Eowyn kill the Lich-King. And before that Sauron loses in a fight against Isildur. Beren and Luthien triumph over Morgoth.

                        You've picked just about the worst franchise for your gotcha. You picked the franchise where people face chthonic evil and come out victorious more often than not.
                        Last edited by Kammerer; 02-01-2020, 04:23 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kammerer View Post

                          Saruman gets killed by Wormtongue.
                          After he lost Isengard, hist staff and much of his powers. So only when he was "downgraded" in weight class.


                          Samwise is instrumental in Sauron's death.
                          Nope. Sauron is not "killed" by Characters. He is defeated by magical mcguffin, which is not the same thing.


                          Pippin and Eowyn kill the Lich-King.
                          Again, this is death by prophecy, which is also a very specifc kind of mcguffin.

                          And before that Sauron loses in a fight against Isildur.
                          Isildur is of Numenoran descent , which are more or less a high fantasy version of superman. He was by no means a "no body", for the same reason Feanor was not an "ordinary elf".
                          Even so, he was defeated also by magical mcguffin (cutting is fingers).

                          Isildur, like Elendil, Feanor, Ar-Pharozon and so on are mythical kings inspired by mythical heroes from Irish and Norse sagas. And Kings in these Sagas are always "somebody" and never a "nobody". That's true even in Tolkien: these characters are no "normal characters", they are "heroes". And are no more "normal" than Aiax or Ulysses were.

                          That said, all others example old true. I could have said "Ron Weasley and Voldemort" or "Morpheus and Agent Smith", it doesn't change much.
                          Last edited by Undead rabbit; 02-01-2020, 04:38 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And in Fall of London Mithras just spent two decades diablerized and has only just got out of a magical ritual that restores his power. There's your "macguffin". Happy now?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              No problem in that case. There is fiat from the storyteller.
                              But then again that would not be the case because that's not what the sheet suggest, doesn't it?


                              And so, in the end, you just confirmed that it cannot be done without a MacGuffin.
                              So sure, your characters can kill Mithras.
                              If you give them a MacGuffin.

                              Just as I could bankrupt Mark Zuckenberg if I got access to his secret files, or beat Mike Tyson if he suddendly got a terrible bone cancer.
                              Sure... why not?

                              But in real life?
                              Nope.
                              Last edited by Undead rabbit; 02-01-2020, 04:42 PM.

                              Comment

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