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Which is more useful, Dominate or Presence?

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  • #16
    I feel like the show the Vampire Diaries made great use of Dominate, but in VTM I always assumed people knew they were dominated that was why the level 6 power Rationalize was so good.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Vamps Like Us View Post
      I feel like the show the Vampire Diaries made great use of Dominate, but in VTM I always assumed people knew they were dominated that was why the level 6 power Rationalize was so good.
      The way my group(s) have always played it -- and I've always seen it played -- it's a matter of how savvy the target is and how much they know about the discipline, combined with how savvy the vampire is in giving the command, and how overt or out-of-sorts the command is.

      Say, for example, you're on your way to Elysium on a rainy night and end up making some small talk with a rival before a meeting. You segue the conversation to weather, a common topic, and quip it'd be an awful night for a person to forget their umbrella. Well as coincidence would have it, your rival forgets their umbrella after all and shows up to Elysium rain-soaked and unprofessional-looking -- sure to make them Harpy Chow™ for the evening and put them on back-footing during the night's events!

      If your rival is scatter-brained or has a lot on their plate that evening, well...shit happens. An umbrella is the kind of thing that's easy to forget when you're busy. Small talk is small talk, and not something most mind terribly in most circumstances. But, if that rival knew you have Dominate, and Dominate can do those sorts of things, and that you stood to gain from their looking like a prat in Elysium...well the gears in their head might start turning. And if they have Eidetic Memory, the game's up on the spot assuming the ST doesn't just negate the command altogether, in which case it's probably better for you in the long run given the target may not even have realized a Dominate attempt was made.

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      • #18
        I'm a V2/Revised player, so I don't really know what happened in V20.

        But I've always thought Presence was way better than Dominate. The only place Dominate really shines is Forgetful Mind -- but the reason that level 3 Dominate is so good is that by altering memories, you can alter people's actual internal reactions to things (to a point) and not just control their actions.

        In other words, the reason Dominate becomes cool at level 3 is because it becomes more like Presence.




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        • #19
          Personnally, I feel the question is awkwardly phrased. It feels like asking which is the better tool: a hammer or a screwdriver?
          They are for different situations. Yes, you can concievably hammer in a screw, or use the back of a screwdriver to affix a wooden plug, but you'd look pretty silly while doing it.

          Dominate gets shit done. Mesmerize and Command ensure what you want to have happen happens, Forgetful Mind ensures that things you didn't like are erased, and Possession is the ultimate in "if you want it done right, do it yourself".
          Presence gets you friends. Awe and Entrancement gain you adoration, while Summon gets you friends whenever you feel like it.

          For giving a great speech to folks to vote your way on the primogen meeting? Presence.
          For "convincing" rivals to throw their vote your way regardless? Dominate.

          It's different tools for different characters and different situations. I've had a Tremere Regent very blatantly and obviously Dominating their subordinates, to hammer home how powerful the organization they serve is. Everything, your body and your mind, are the property of Clan Tremere...


          Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.

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          • #20
            I liked the idea of Carthage, but ok. That makes sense.


            “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Yorkblack View Post
              Another thing to consider is the dice pool : dominate always use manipulation, and then intimidation, leadership and subterfuge (iirc), which are all useful skills that you want to have. Presence, on the other hand, use a bunch of different dice pools for its powers : charisma and empathy, but also useless stuff like performance and appearance, where you will likely be low, so in general, you might get more dice to use in dominate than in presence.
              Maybe if you're playing a cold business exec or military type. But I'd say that Abilities like Performance and Empathy, and Attributes like Charisma and Appearance, are a lot more likely to be specialized in for folks like musicians, poets, politicians, activists, con men, etc. There are just as many valid concepts that make use of the softer approach to influence and power as there are that go for domineering approaches.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                I liked the idea of Carthage, but ok. That makes sense.
                This - responding not to the post but the poster's sig - made me lol

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                • #23
                  This is like asking whether a hammer or screwdriver is better. Disciplines are just a tool. Pick the right tool for the job, though it is possible for other tools to work in a sub-optimal way. (And a single situation could be satisfactorily resolved by different approaches).

                  If you ask for my favorite Discipline, I like Dominate slightly better than Presence.

                  And the vampire's sex is irrelevant to the use of Disciplines.

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                  • #24
                    Vampires don't have genders, just the memory of one.


                    Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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                    • #25
                      Not true!!! Just because you can’t have sex doesn’t mean you don’t have a gender. Gender is a social construct.


                      “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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                      • #26
                        Black Fox I agree. It’s more a function of clan and I guess personality.


                        “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by GilbyTheFat View Post
                          This - responding not to the post but the poster's sig - made me lol
                          Cato the Censor still got it 2000 years later ^^


                          Furthermore, I believe Carthage should be destroyed.

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                          • #28
                            pang4 I like Roman history, and I like Cato (even if he was really prudish), so I'm gonna at that.


                            “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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                            • #29
                              Ohhhhhh

                              I literally just got the joke lol

                              Cato the Censor said that about Carthage


                              “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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                              • #30
                                Dominate 100% what you going to do? presence your way our of one of the members of your coterie losing themselves to the beast causing a masquerade breach? Presence you have no control how the target is going to appease you, Dominate you know exactly what the play is and you can mind wipe what people do and do not remember.

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