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tzimisce speculation v5

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  • tzimisce speculation v5

    So, everything we have about the Devils is that they will probably have Protean and some unique vicissitude-like power in it.
    What else?
    Do we have any kind of infos about their political situation ?
    Do you have any kind of speculation about them?
    So sad we have to wait a lot for the last two clans.


    -'' We are the unsullied.
    We are the inheritors.
    We are the Pure ''-

    I'm the guy who draws werewolves.

  • #2
    I dont think there will be sabbat book in v5. So tzi will be old clan camarilla/anarchs lords who can use protean to turn into snakes or bat.

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    • #3
      Personally I'd prefer for Vicissitude to be a set of Koldunic Sorcery rituals. If they do that, I'd be fine with the Tzims having the generic version of Protean, as turning into bats, wolves, and mist fits their Dracula theme just fine.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by blailton View Post
        I dont think there will be sabbat book in v5. So tzi will be old clan camarilla/anarchs lords who can use protean to turn into snakes or bat.


        Well that would be an..interesting decision.

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        • #5
          Vicissitude is protean you say? That's fundamentally wrong, space aliens nonwithstanding. Protean and co is about manifesting the beast for temporary changes whilst Visc is the discipline of a mad doctor.


          V5 is not VTM

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          • #6
            Turning Vicissitude into a brach of Protean would be terribad. It has always been about fleshcrafting and alterations to one's own and other people's bodies. That's what set it apart from Protean, which is closer to the man-to-beast transformations found in vampire folklore.

            I suppose making it another path of Koldunic Sorcery would make sense.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
              Vicissitude is protean you say? That's fundamentally wrong, space aliens nonwithstanding. Protean and co is about manifesting the beast for temporary changes whilst Visc is the discipline of a mad doctor.


              and Obtenebration was about calling on outer night, the nephandic horrors from beyond space time, in the formless void. Now it's calling on Oblivion, same as necromancy.

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              • #8
                I prefer VIcissitude to be a set of rituals, because, imo, it should be powerful but slow. Like, a cross between Path of Conjuring and Biothaumaturgy, allowing you to create a home full of biomechanical stuff, but to do so slowly. Canon Vicissitude has always been too powerful and too weak at the same time for my tastes. Too powerful in that it allows you to just grab someone and immediately do things to them. Too weak in that those things are garbage, like trading a health level for soak dice.

                A version of Vicc that is just a variation on Protean would double-down on the worst aspects of old Vicc, probably allowing you to do things like instantly alter someone else somewhat for one scene. Blech.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                  Vicissitude is protean you say? That's fundamentally wrong, space aliens nonwithstanding. Protean and co is about manifesting the beast for temporary changes whilst Visc is the discipline of a mad doctor.
                  Nothing official.
                  In Chicago by night there is something on a toreador npc background. It litterally says that she has protean because of some swallowed blood from her tzimisce lover.


                  -'' We are the unsullied.
                  We are the inheritors.
                  We are the Pure ''-

                  I'm the guy who draws werewolves.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                    Vicissitude is protean you say? That's fundamentally wrong, space aliens nonwithstanding. Protean and co is about manifesting the beast for temporary changes whilst Visc is the discipline of a mad doctor.
                    Protean is about physical changes in the body so it's a good substitute for Vicissitude. Changing OTHER people is OP and should be an Amalgam Discipline or Ritual.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #11
                      I believe the devs have confirmed that no clans will have unique snowflake disciplines any more: every discipline will be shared between at least two clans. And, yeah, there's the CbN thing about someone transforming their appearance using Protean developed by drinking from a Tzimisce.

                      Honestly, though? Protean-for-Viss makes perfect sense to me.

                      Why is turning into a Typhonic beast (Serpentis 4) so fundamentally different from turning into a monstrous Zulo war-form (Vicissitude 4)?

                      Or, why is turning into a mobile cloud of mist (Protean 5) so fundamentally different from turning into a mobile pool of blood (Vicissitude 5)?

                      Or, why is turning into a monstrous bat-creature (Protean 6) so fundamentally different from turning into a Chiropteran Marauder (Vicissitude 6)?

                      People seem to forget that quite a lot of Vicissitude powers were just temporary shapechanging to give yourself buffs, same as quite a lot of Protean and quite a lot of Serpentis. If Malleable Visage can come from the same source as turn-into-a-puddle-of-blood (classic Vicissitude), why can't it also come from the same source as turn-into-a-cloud-of-mist (classic Protean)?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Draconis View Post
                        I believe the devs have confirmed that no clans will have unique snowflake disciplines any more: every discipline will be shared between at least two clans. And, yeah, there's the CbN thing about someone transforming their appearance using Protean developed by drinking from a Tzimisce.

                        Honestly, though? Protean-for-Viss makes perfect sense to me.

                        Why is turning into a Typhonic beast (Serpentis 4) so fundamentally different from turning into a monstrous Zulo war-form (Vicissitude 4)?

                        Or, why is turning into a mobile cloud of mist (Protean 5) so fundamentally different from turning into a mobile pool of blood (Vicissitude 5)?

                        Or, why is turning into a monstrous bat-creature (Protean 6) so fundamentally different from turning into a Chiropteran Marauder (Vicissitude 6)?
                        BECAUSE DIFFERENT!


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Draconis View Post
                          I believe the devs have confirmed that no clans will have unique snowflake disciplines any more: every discipline will be shared between at least two clans. And, yeah, there's the CbN thing about someone transforming their appearance using Protean developed by drinking from a Tzimisce.

                          Honestly, though? Protean-for-Viss makes perfect sense to me.

                          Why is turning into a Typhonic beast (Serpentis 4) so fundamentally different from turning into a monstrous Zulo war-form (Vicissitude 4)?

                          Or, why is turning into a mobile cloud of mist (Protean 5) so fundamentally different from turning into a mobile pool of blood (Vicissitude 5)?

                          Or, why is turning into a monstrous bat-creature (Protean 6) so fundamentally different from turning into a Chiropteran Marauder (Vicissitude 6)?

                          People seem to forget that quite a lot of Vicissitude powers were just temporary shapechanging to give yourself buffs, same as quite a lot of Protean and quite a lot of Serpentis. If Malleable Visage can come from the same source as turn-into-a-puddle-of-blood (classic Vicissitude), why can't it also come from the same source as turn-into-a-cloud-of-mist (classic Protean)?
                          Because merging disciplines weakens their identity and the stories that come of it, Vicissitude is the power over flesh and bone, yours and others, treating the mortal clay as literal clay, mocking gods creation of Adam in the garden, Protean is manifestation of the Beast in your own form, taking that animalistic fury and using it to become a better predator.

                          Obtenerbration is reaching beyond reality to wrestle with primordial darkness, the stuff of Lovecroftian nightmare, Necromancy is trafficking with entropic power over death and the dead, summoning and binding human souls.

                          Except now they aren't,. The separation is gone, now.. They kinda just are...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Taggie View Post

                            Because merging disciplines weakens their identity and the stories that come of it, Vicissitude is the power over flesh and bone, yours and others, treating the mortal clay as literal clay, mocking gods creation of Adam in the garden, Protean is manifestation of the Beast in your own form, taking that animalistic fury and using it to become a better predator.
                            I think that's a lot of flavor text that tries to make each Discipline less accessible to other vampires and individual powers less unique.

                            What if you don't WANT to be a crazy serial killing flesh-sculptor but just a guy who uses it to heal people? Like a Salubri with Vicisstitude? What about the Shadow Master who isn't a demonic abyss user?

                            Serpentis should definitely be Protean because it's ridiculous as its own discipline no matter how much you like Thulsa Doom.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Draconis View Post
                              I believe the devs have confirmed that no clans will have unique snowflake disciplines any more: every discipline will be shared between at least two clans. And, yeah, there's the CbN thing about someone transforming their appearance using Protean developed by drinking from a Tzimisce.

                              Honestly, though? Protean-for-Viss makes perfect sense to me.

                              Why is turning into a Typhonic beast (Serpentis 4) so fundamentally different from turning into a monstrous Zulo war-form (Vicissitude 4)?

                              Or, why is turning into a mobile cloud of mist (Protean 5) so fundamentally different from turning into a mobile pool of blood (Vicissitude 5)?

                              Or, why is turning into a monstrous bat-creature (Protean 6) so fundamentally different from turning into a Chiropteran Marauder (Vicissitude 6)?

                              People seem to forget that quite a lot of Vicissitude powers were just temporary shapechanging to give yourself buffs, same as quite a lot of Protean and quite a lot of Serpentis. If Malleable Visage can come from the same source as turn-into-a-puddle-of-blood (classic Vicissitude), why can't it also come from the same source as turn-into-a-cloud-of-mist (classic Protean)?
                              The same arguments can be made for merging Presence and Dominate, Obfuscate and Chimerstry, Dominate and Obfuscate (fuddling with minds, one for control and one to hide), Dominate and Animalism and Presence, and so on. You could probably boil down the entire discipline list to three or four "core" disciplines that individual clans have offshoot powers for.

                              The answer to "but why don't they" is a simple "because it's less interesting".

                              Vicissitude and Protean are both forms of shape-changing when you burn away all the fluff and focus on the mechanics alone, sure. But Vicissitude is decidedly different in what it does, how it does it, and what it implies about the user from Protean.

                              Protean is about self-transformation, and is all-around a more "moralistically clean" approach. Vicissitude is transgressive and monstrous, and as much about changing others around you as it is about changing yourself. Protean lets you become a bat or a wolf while Vicissitude turns you into an inhuman, other worldly alien-looking thing. Protean lets you emulate a werewolf, while Vicissitude lets you emulate John Carpenter's The Thing. Protean gives you useful tools to survive in the wilderness, while Vicissitude gives you useful for a body horror movie.

                              They are as similar as Dominate and Obfuscate.


                              Writing up Clanbook: Aabbt

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