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  • Originally posted by Taggie View Post
    if Humanity was easier to regain maybe, but since it is an absolute nightmare, loosing any is a huge deal, and loosing some for doing as your path demands is nonsensical, especially given the Bahari for instance eating their own childer, repeatedly.
    I've always felt that making a Path demanding diablerie with the rules for diablerie as written was making a Path of sticking your head in a Microwave.

    It's the Path of Stupid.

    Diablerie is likely to destroy your sanity and fuses you with another Kindred forever. What lunatics thinks you can justy do this willy nilly?

    Originally posted by blailton View Post

    Hnm.
    So V5 is not that divisive in your opinion.
    Hnmm.
    Okay.
    I feel like this forum is not representative of the fandom as a whole.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

      I've always felt that making a Path demanding diablerie with the rules for diablerie as written was making a Path of sticking your head in a Microwave.

      It's the Path of Stupid.

      Diablerie is likely to destroy your sanity and fuses you with another Kindred forever. What lunatics thinks you can justy do this willy nilly?



      I feel like this forum is not representative of the fandom as a whole.

      Because it didn't used to. Not explicitly, it was a rumoured risk with eating low generation, truly ancient targets, (iirc Monty Coven was about the first time it became more than rumour, but given that was years ago I may be wrong)

      Forums aren't fandoms, that is true.

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      • Yeah, that whole 'Diablerie will have your victim take over you' is essentially reserved for high gens with low willpower taking on low gens with high willpower and maybe a little cheating. It's played up because people don't want you to diablerize.
        I had a storyteller take control of my character and send out a cryptic text, warning some sabbat about my plans to stick them all in their havens during daylight and be delivered to me, because I ate one pack member and apparently his soul was vindictive. Was really not amused. Another time (different character) I got a fear of human contact because i ate a tzmisce and had to rehabilitate myself. On the other end of the spectrum, because the storyteller gave me meglomania I had to diablerize, and the elder gave me superpowers that broke the game's balance and incentivised the other players to eat.
        Storytellers always make diablierie itself too punative or too rewarding. On one hand they hear 'you take in someone's soul' and go buck wild with moralizing or they latch on to the 'eat the rich' narrative. In either case they usually wave the social consequence of diablerie (At least the execution) Diablerie was meant to be far more neutral; You eat the guy, you gain generation, you maybe gain a short term power boost and can learn the victim's disciplines without assistance. You have eaten the soul, but it has been chewed out and sucked through a straw. Your victim is not conscious while inside you, at worst it just hasn't returned to the reincarnation cycle. In older editions of VTM, it wasn't a garanteed humanity loss, it was just murder; It's a crime beyond murder because the elders say so.


        V5 is not VTM

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        • I think demonic possession is the worst thing that could happen with diablerie but it had consequences well before then. At the very least, it should severely screw with your mind and soul because, again, you're eating someone's soul and fusing it with you. Honestly, given how appalling it is in the setting and how much of a nightmare scenario, I think it should be something done very rarely but worth the enormous benefit it provides if you're sufficiently ruthless.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • Are you though? You only really need the vampire part of the soul, And if you needed the whole lot, why would it be in any condition to challenge the psyche (Ignoring ancients of course)? If we're using gnostic/hermetic thought (Which I think are huge influences in the WoD) souls are recycled but they don't keep their memories from past lives; Surely the soul would forget everything when it gets eaten and lacks a physical mind to support it, or at least, during the time where the aura's black stain appears.

            The way vampires work; Every generation is weaker than the last, and they originated from a brother killer who spited his grandfather; As curses are ironic Surely they were cursed into a creature that would always have brothers trying to kill brothers and fathers, and the generational system is there to encourage that. But even for god, who's malicious in this setting, isn't making something to harm the reincarnation cycle a really bad move?

            Metaphysically, I just think diablerie should be more neutral.It's not a good act, but it really ain't far from murder.
            Politically, I think most storytellers go far too easy on it in Cam games.


            V5 is not VTM

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            • I don't think the morality is really what would knock your Path score down or Humanity even. It would be simply it would damage your sense of self.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • But you're not actually supposed to get all their memories and such. Just generation. The rest is rumors with no threat to your sense of self (If, yknow, addiction isn't a horrifying attack on your sense of self)
                So pro-murder paths with pro-diablerie make sense.

                But I'm all for adding horror and misinformation around diablerie. Vicissitude is a disease after all... unless it's merged with protean. Then it's definitely not a disease.


                V5 is not VTM

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                • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                  But you're not actually supposed to get all their memories and such. Just generation. The rest is rumors with no threat to your sense of self (If, yknow, addiction isn't a horrifying attack on your sense of self)
                  So pro-murder paths with pro-diablerie make sense.

                  But I'm all for adding horror and misinformation around diablerie. Vicissitude is a disease after all... unless it's merged with protean. Then it's definitely not a disease.
                  You literally absorb the soul of the people involved. Mind you, this is a change from how it was earlier as you get EXP from the V20 Tal'Mah'Ra supplement.

                  I think personally it makes diablerie much more interesting if it's something that is a traumatizing horrifying but incredibly useful experience.

                  YMMV.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                  • I actually think it's far more horrifying if it's... easy. The most intensely pleasurable murder you've ever experienced. It feels so good, you want to do it more. What a rush. It should terrify you that there are other people getting their kicks from this.
                    Like any serious drug, it'll isolate you. That's felt from the Eerie pressence and the streaks in your aura; but who needs friends when you've got the most unimaginable high? The local populace is your supply.

                    If every time you did it you had flashbacks to your victim's abusive childhood, it wouldn't be so alluring.


                    V5 is not VTM

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                    • Metaphysical divagations of Leandro
                      Personally I like the idea of Diablerie destroying souls or trapping them becuase in my interpretation of the world of darkness vampires are a force of stagnation pointed towards corruption and descention hence why they become more animal as they degenerate while mages (their methaphycal opposite) are pointed towards enlightenment or ascension.

                      More similaties I have is that while the avatar of a mage is the divine and creative side of the human soul , the beast is the animal and destructive side of the human soul with normally are in balance but when it break the soul undergoes the awakening or the dark awakening.


                      Hunger pool

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                      • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                        I recommend checking out SEATTLE BY NIGHT if you don't mind the players not taking things as seriously as LA BY NIGHT. Seattle by Night shows that while Jason Carl has adopted a strong Pro-Anarch attitude for LA by Night, he's perfectly capable of shifting it to the Camarilla at the drop of a hat. The first season is all about the Camarilla loyal coterie working their way up the system and dealing with a bunch of idiot Anarchs who are endangering everything with their stupidity.
                        Funnily enough, I had been meaning to check out Seattle by Night for some time, and finished the series over the weekend. The Penny Arcade gang's laid-back, shooting-the-shit style of play was definitely more to my tastes than the sometimes excruciatingly slow and ponderous dialogue of L.A. by Night. Seattle by Night felt more like actual play than a series of improv acting sessions.

                        I also appreciated the lesser body count. In the Vampire: The Masquerade that I'm familiar with, killing another Kindred was always a Big Deal, and sometimes it has seemed like the L.A. by Night coterie can just straight up murder anyone that displeases them with very minor consequences. Seattle by Night put more emphasis on the incestuous web of connections between all the local vampires, and how throwing your weight around always makes you step on someone else's toes. As a result, the chronicle felt more credible to me. The player characters needed less plot armor to stay in play, and at no point was the viewer asked to take seriously the idea of making a months-old fledgling who didn't know anything about anything a figurehead of the frigging Anarch Movement.

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                        • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                          Fair enough, you're right. We really do need the Touchstone and Conviction system to be modified for Monster Play.

                          Also the Path Loresheets.

                          Maybe I should make a thread on them.
                          Just thought Also the side affects of path score, I seriously doubt Path and the Inner Voice is going to let you bump uglies or look alive at high ratings.

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                          • Originally posted by Taggie View Post

                            Just thought Also the side affects of path score, I seriously doubt Path and the Inner Voice is going to let you bump uglies or look alive at high ratings.
                            I think that was a mistake anyway.

                            I don't see a reason why people who are in control of their Beast should look like corpses or be unable to have sex if they're following an ideology that venerates an Ancient Babylonian Sex God.

                            Path of the Beast and Lilith worship is all about the nature.

                            It's trying to incentivize humanity and that's silly.

                            FYI - Matthew Dawkins said that we're probably not getting paths back in his 25 years of Vampire the Masquerade interview. He expects Tenets to replace them.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                            • Originally posted by Elphilm View Post
                              Funnily enough, I had been meaning to check out Seattle by Night for some time, and finished the series over the weekend. The Penny Arcade gang's laid-back, shooting-the-shit style of play was definitely more to my tastes than the sometimes excruciatingly slow and ponderous dialogue of L.A. by Night. Seattle by Night felt more like actual play than a series of improv acting sessions.

                              I also appreciated the lesser body count. In the Vampire: The Masquerade that I'm familiar with, killing another Kindred was always a Big Deal, and sometimes it has seemed like the L.A. by Night coterie can just straight up murder anyone that displeases them with very minor consequences. Seattle by Night put more emphasis on the incestuous web of connections between all the local vampires, and how throwing your weight around always makes you step on someone else's toes. As a result, the chronicle felt more credible to me. The player characters needed less plot armor to stay in play, and at no point was the viewer asked to take seriously the idea of making a months-old fledgling who didn't know anything about anything a figurehead of the frigging Anarch Movement.
                              I feel it very much does work as a foil for LA By Night.

                              * Less serious.
                              * More Camarilla-based
                              * More improv

                              If you like one you'll probably like the other but if you don't like one, you still might like the other.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Taggie View Post
                                Just thought Also the side affects of path score, I seriously doubt Path and the Inner Voice is going to let you bump uglies or look alive at high ratings.
                                Yep, I think Path of Death and the Soul would be eminently insulted by the latter.

                                Probably this can be solved through Loresheet. The whole point of these it's to have quirks of the system based around the story of your character. Having different results of high end "Humanity" could easily be one of these quirks.

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