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Possible Elder Disciple Rule

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  • Possible Elder Disciple Rule

    Kindred can only learn 5 Powers of a Single Discipline.

    For each level of Blood potency above 1, a Kindred may know an additional power from a Discipline, i.e 6 at Blood Potency 2, 7 at BP 3,

    This allows powerful methuselahs to have a vast array of powers at their disposal. If a Kindred enters torpor or somehow otherwise lowers their Blood Potency and this results in knowing "too many powers", the Kindred must immediately select an appropriate known number of powers from among those they know. They retain access to these powers and lose the rest temporarily. These powers can be regained by increasing Blood Potency.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Delkus View Post
    Kindred can only learn 5 Powers of a Single Discipline.

    For each level of Blood potency above 1, a Kindred may know an additional power from a Discipline, i.e 6 at Blood Potency 2, 7 at BP 3,

    This allows powerful methuselahs to have a vast array of powers at their disposal. If a Kindred enters torpor or somehow otherwise lowers their Blood Potency and this results in knowing "too many powers", the Kindred must immediately select an appropriate known number of powers from among those they know. They retain access to these powers and lose the rest temporarily. These powers can be regained by increasing Blood Potency.

    Is your intention to allow it to expand the capabilities of higher Gens? I mean, a 13th Gen can get to BP3 as a maximum, so would have 2 extra powers.

    If you want it to be Elder-specific, you should tie it to Generation, not Blood Potency. At 8th Gen, and every Generation below, characters may purchase an additional power in a Discipline they know. So a 5th Generation character can have 9 powers total (5 base, plus 4 from Generaitonal bonus) in their Disciplines.

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    • #3
      My plan was to go with this: the maximum powers in a discipline is 5 or the character's blood potency, whichever is higher. Still ties in to the potency mechanic, but also only allows lower generation kindred access to the expanded powers.

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      • #4
        This are the rules I'm using for Elders, I post them here in case they serve as inspiration for someone.

        Atributes and discipline values are capped ar five or blood potency value (the highest) and are temporarily lost if blood potency falls.

        All discipline powers are in the 1-5 range and there is no cap to the number of powers you can buy but:

        - The power cost is (the power level + number of powers on that level) x discipline cost

        - The discipline level is the highest cost you payed for a power.

        I'm treating all old elder discipline powers as 1- 5 powers with prerequisites and/or amalgams

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        • #5
          It seems to me a bit too linear, while the previous progression was more exponential.
          The difference between a 4th gen Methuselah and a 6th gen Elder would be just two powers, even if the Methuselah had 2000 year more of time to learn the secrets of his blood.

          The limit of 5 powers should be just dumped, it simply make no sense. The powers of vampires are powers that you learn, over time, by mastering your blood, they are not spell-slot from a PC Game.

          So I would just dump the 5 power rules, and create more powerful powers that requires a minimum of Blood Potency to be activated, as Requiem did.

          (Well, basically I just would really use Requiem rules...)
          Last edited by Undead rabbit; 02-05-2020, 07:07 AM.

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          • #6
            There's lots of ways you can expand power without necessarily adding more dots. being able to have multiple verisons of power per dot. You could also go back to having dots in certain powers add to attributes, but more in a way like archspheres did for mages (you could have 'bonus' dots in social and mental attributes too depending on the attribute. Auspex doing perception or intellect, Protean appearances, Presence charisma, dominate manipulation, etc.) having multiple powers for a given discipline and dot level also means you can do more amalgam powers (and possibly more complex combinations.)

            You could also make elder (and higher) disciplines more flexible (sort of like Sorcere revised where oyu have 'aspects' - which is also akin to how Earthbound in DTF could 'amplify' their lores by spending faith. The MET versions of sorcery in some cases also had a 'freecast' option that allowed you to modify abilities.)

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            • #7
              One of the ways to make your elders and Methuselahs more potent without having to create extensive house rules is to make liberal use of Criticals. Elders and Methuselahs are 1. more likely to have high level skills and attributes and 2. have all those nice bonus dice to use their powers. The chance they will roll a crit is pretty good. I got the impression that the benefits of a Crit, beyond the extra successes, was to allow a skill or discipline to act better than normal. The idea gets some weight because the new Oblivion powers in Cult of the blood Gods specifically spells out the effects a Crit gives for each power. The Core Rulebook doesn't do this (except for a few powers) but nothing stops the ST from implementing the system. Imagine Mass Dominate effecting everyone in the room on a crit rather than the vamps willpower level of targets.

              If more power is required I would probably go with Mister_Dunpeal idea of allowing an elder or Methuselah to buy additional powers from the present list. Maybe limit the number an elder can buy vs a methuselah or the level available to purchase as a means to distinguish their power levels. I do not think new level need to be added. It looks like V5 will be adding some of those old elder level powers at level 4 and 5 as supplements are printed. Cult of the Blood Gods adds at least 1 from Fortitude.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
                It seems to me a bit too linear, while the previous progression was more exponential.
                The difference between a 4th gen Methuselah and a 6th gen Elder would be just two powers, even if the Methuselah had 2000 year more of time to learn the secrets of his blood.

                The limit of 5 powers should be just dumped, it simply make no sense. The powers of vampires are powers that you learn, over time, by mastering your blood, they are not spell-slot from a PC Game.

                So I would just dump the 5 power rules, and create more powerful powers that requires a minimum of Blood Potency to be activated, as Requiem did.

                (Well, basically I just would really use Requiem rules...)
                That would be 2 powers per discipline, so if we say for this sake that you can only have in-clan powers. That means that the 4th generation would have 6 extra powers than the 6th generation.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
                  It seems to me a bit too linear, while the previous progression was more exponential.
                  The difference between a 4th gen Methuselah and a 6th gen Elder would be just two powers, even if the Methuselah had 2000 year more of time to learn the secrets of his blood.

                  The limit of 5 powers should be just dumped, it simply make no sense. The powers of vampires are powers that you learn, over time, by mastering your blood, they are not spell-slot from a PC Game.

                  So I would just dump the 5 power rules, and create more powerful powers that requires a minimum of Blood Potency to be activated, as Requiem did.

                  (Well, basically I just would really use Requiem rules...)
                  I'm removing the limit for any games I run (I'm running a Dark Ages game that will span nearly a thousand years by the time it's done), and I've actually rewritten how Discipline powers and dots are acquired with experience. Characters now buy powers. The number of dots they have in a Discipline equals the number of powers they have (rather than vice versa per the core rules), with the number of dots they possess representing their overall mastery of that Discipline that they have as they acquire powers. The number of dots in a Discipline caps at 5 (or higher in my games where I have increased Attribute and Discipline maximums based on Blood Potency, though Skills and Advantages are still capped at 5), but a character can continue to buy additional powers even after they've capped their dots in a Discipline. They still can't skip to buying a higher level power without having enough dots, though. For example, to purchase a level 4 power, a character must already have three dots in that Discipline (meaning a character with two dots in Celerity cannot buy a level 4 power, but they could buy a level 3 power, which would then increase the number of dots they have in Celerity from 2 to 3).

                  It changes XP costs a bit if you buy multiple powers of the same level, but I'm okay with that. And since vampire NPCs work the same way (I technically just assign them however many Discipline powers and dots I feel is appropriate, rather than spending XP for NPCs), it doesn't unbalance my game.
                  Clan Discipline Power Power level x 5
                  Other Discipline Power Power level x 7
                  Caitiff Discipline Power Power level x 6
                  Last edited by Archasimos; 02-20-2020, 01:12 AM.

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