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[V5] Tweaking the Clan spread of Cam/Anarchs

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  • [V5] Tweaking the Clan spread of Cam/Anarchs

    I'm having a hard time understanding why the Nosferatu are still in the Cam. Aren't they basically responsible for the 2nd Inquisition? With the Cam closing ranks hard, how were Nos not expelled, if not have a standing order to kill on sight? It's like the Masq breach to end all Masq breaches.

    Similarly, I'm unsure what the utility is anymore of continuing to tolerate the Malkavians. Their unpredictable nature doesn't seem to mesh well with the stronger sense i'm getting of the "Small Room."

    I'd expect a return to the High Clan/Low Clan divide. Essentially, for the Camarilla to stop pretending it had ever really changed. Which is the vibe I get from V5, Of course any one vamp could BECOME Cam in theory, but in broad strokes I'd see a breakdown like this:

    Camarilla

    Ventrue
    Toreador
    Tremere
    Banu Haqim
    Lasombra
    Tzimisce (Progenitor/True/"Old" Clan; Dominate, Animalism, Protean)


    Anarchs

    Brujah
    Gangrel
    Ministry
    Nosferatu
    Malkavians


    Independents (not really sure what it means to be Independent anymore with Cam/Non-Cam relations these days. Maybe there is no Independent anymore?)

    Hecata (they seem to be one of the last hold-outs trying to affirm some kind of neutrality. not sure how long that will last. i can see them trying to work with both Anarchs and Cam, to navigate both worlds. not sure if the nuCam would embrace that though, or just use them and treat them the same as anarchs. A few years left on the treaty. I could see them go either way.)


    Sabbat (at this point, i'm not really concerned about the Sabbat)

    Tzimisce (Vicissitude Adherents)


    Thoughts are appreciated. Thanks!
    Last edited by nicodemus; 02-14-2020, 04:23 PM.


    VtR 2v5 Homebrew: VtR 2e base with my favorite V5 mechanics

  • #2
    The Camarilla is actually responsible for the Second Inquisition since it was the attempt to use them against the Anarchs and Sabbat that alerted the government to the existence of vampires. I think the Nosferatu fit the Camarilla much better.

    Love the Malkavians in the Anarchs.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      ah, ok. i had recalled something along the lines of a hacked ShreckNet blew the doors wide open to incite the 2nd Inq. is that true or no? if it IS true, even if it was at the behest of the Cam, i could see the Cam turning on the Nos en masse as the fall guys. i never got the impression the Cam was fond of the Nos. they were sort of tolerated because of their utility. so my thinking was, if that utility was compromised, and potentially replaced by new members such as the Banu Haqim, why keep them around anymore?

      would you mind elaborating on why you think they fit better in the Cam? i'm curious.

      thanks!


      VtR 2v5 Homebrew: VtR 2e base with my favorite V5 mechanics

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      • #4
        Originally posted by nicodemus View Post
        ah, ok. i had recalled something along the lines of a hacked ShreckNet blew the doors wide open to incite the 2nd Inq. is that true or no? if it IS true, even if it was at the behest of the Cam, i could see the Cam turning on the Nos en masse as the fall guys. i never got the impression the Cam was fond of the Nos. they were sort of tolerated because of their utility. so my thinking was, if that utility was compromised, and potentially replaced by new members such as the Banu Haqim, why keep them around anymore?

        would you mind elaborating on why you think they fit better in the Cam? i'm curious.

        thanks!
        I think the Camarilla need the Nosferatu more than the Nosferatu need them so they would just blame the Anarchs for it. Yes, Shrek.net was hit hard but so was a lot of places.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #5
          In my game, I am mulling the Nosferatu leaving the Camarilla because of the discovery of the leaking of information to the SI from ShreckNet when the Camarilla force them to turn it over. They of course turn over only the front half of ShreckNet, which is how they know the Camarilla leak the information as people profiled there start being killed. I also have the idea of a ritual purging Vicissitude from a portion of the Tzimisce and many of the cleansed ones leaving the Sabbat. There is a Malkavian Seer's vision that the Camarilla be upheld by seven pillars, and could see the reemergence of the High and Low clan feuds coming from this massive shake up.

          I could see the Gangrel pulling a Ministry like move. Many of them go Independent, while a portion remain within the Camarilla or Anarchs, similar to the City/Country split in the Sabbat. I have a corporate predator Gangrel in mind as being one willing to play the politics game in lieu of hunting.

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          • #6
            I find it sad and boring to say "This clan is Camarilla and that clan is Anarch" That the Gangrel left the Camarillia when Xaier had had experience wth the antediluvian, but why must entire clans be only of one sect. I liked it more when the Anarchs was a rabble of mixed clans. degenerated and desillusioned yong licks who did not the the good things about the Camarilla.

            Though having the Lasombra and the Tzimisce in Sabbat only 8there are no antitribus, got it?! *angry stare*. But why must all Brujah go Anarch they are rebels and stand up to the powers that be, so if Theo bell says lets go anarch, I would prefer if there were brujah who said "why should you dictate over us, old man?" and support the Camarilla still

            Why did not setite join the Ashira instead of the Anarchs?

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            • #7
              CTPhipps ok, i see what you're saying. i guess it's a matter of what one wants to do with them. i think, from a meta side, i like the falling out aspect, the betrayal of it. And also the contrast between the different flavor of spycraft one may get from, say, a Nos/Ministry angle, as opposed to a Lasombra/Banu Haqim/Toreador angle. it sort of feels different to me, ya know? the flavor of it.

              SarcasticJazzHands yeah, sounds great! sounds like we're tracking along similar thoughts. would love to hear how it goes!

              Little_Miss_ Serneholt i get what you're saying. at least for me, i'm speaking in a broad sense. it's not really, "well, you're a Toreador, so here's your Cammy card." but more like noticing trends in the ongoing history and political relations of these great Clans. so, while there are Brujah in the Cam, more often than not, due to historical and ideological tension, they're not very numerous, and you'll tend to find more among the Anarch movements.

              it can be fun to play against type, for sure, but Masq is sort of built a bit on these large, Sectarian premises. i think what you're alluding to is more baked into the premise of Requiem. i love both Masq and Req, but for different reasons.

              As for the Setites, aren't the Ashirra a Muslim sect? I don't think they'd take well to polytheists in their club. But I may be mistaken on that. I certainly asked myself that very question about the Banu Haqim, though. I would've expected them be strongly present in the Ashirra, and maybe they are.


              VtR 2v5 Homebrew: VtR 2e base with my favorite V5 mechanics

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              • #8
                Originally posted by nicodemus View Post
                SarcasticJazzHands yeah, sounds great! sounds like we're tracking along similar thoughts. would love to hear how it goes!
                I've been chronicling the adventure here on the forums. I'm not completely caught up yet.

                The game is V20, started in Civil War era and currently in 1991. We will play into 1999, take a break and then play modern day using V5 rules set. I've been incorporating things into the game to explain the mechanics differences and building towards the sect shake ups.

                The city is nominally Camarilla currently. The Brujah PC is Jeremy MacNeil's grandchilde, but greatly disagrees with the rise of the Anarchs. He also has a extreme distrust of all things Malkavian. The Toreador PC Prince of the city has welcomed any and everyone that will serve the city, so has opened the doors to the Giovanni and Ravnos, both of whom have seats on the Primogen council, much to the chagrin of the Ventrue Seneschal PC.

                Future plans I have are to make the Brujah an Archon after the game ends and we do follow up stuff. I have no idea how they will react to Theo Bell's actions. They have actively fought for the little guy in the city, hoping to keep another anarch uprising from happening.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Little_Miss_ Serneholt View Post
                  I find it sad and boring to say "This clan is Camarilla and that clan is Anarch"
                  I agree. I have long believed that the Anarchs should be home to members of all the clans. Individuals who are refugees, fugitives, secretly spies, dissidents and the like from the main clan find (or should) a place among the Anarchs.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nicodemus View Post
                    CTPhippsI certainly asked myself that very question about the Banu Haqim, though. I would've expected them be strongly present in the Ashirra, and maybe they are.
                    Aren't most members of Banu Haqim that associate with other clans schismatics who typically follow Islam and sometimes other Abrahamic religions?

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                    • #11
                      I think the Banu Haqim are part of the Ashirra but they're also people the Ashirra hold at arms length because a 1/3rd of them are insane blood cultist terrorists.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                      • #12
                        Spencer from The Hills that's my understanding. the big split in the clan was that Ur-Shulgi was like, "no gods! only haqim!" and the monotheists in the clan weren't having that, and bailed.

                        if they ever do explore the Ashirra, i'd expect them to have strong Banu Haqim representation and Shulgites as antagonists.


                        VtR 2v5 Homebrew: VtR 2e base with my favorite V5 mechanics

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                        • #13
                          The impression I get from la by night was that although the most lean camarilla they care less about sect affiliation than other clans and regularly interact with their brethren across sect lines.

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