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Status Among Ventrue (V20)

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  • Status Among Ventrue (V20)

    So, I am sure it has come up for many. What do you do when a higher status Ventrue PC shows up? One bent on throwing yours down?

    You have to be subtle, because he is your board superior, but how do you keep him from ruining your unlife?

    What if you're the Prince or senechal under a torpored Prince? Can he unseat you or the prince?

    What are your duties to this new Ventrue?

    How can you make him look bad?

    Thanks again you guys... you're always all so helpful.
    Last edited by Talvas; 02-16-2020, 02:17 PM. Reason: Spelling and crap...

  • #2
    It's all explained in the revised clan book


    You've been playing around the magic that is black
    But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

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    • #3
      Lore of the Clans does well too.
      If you can sway members of the Board, you should be fine.


      V5 is not VTM

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      • #4
        The only problem is there is no board that I know of. It would be me and him only if we start having the meetings.

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        • #5
          If there's no board then what does his status matter?
          I would just suggest you don't make your dispute public though. Would reflect badly on the clan.


          V5 is not VTM

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          • #6
            The answer depends on the type of game and the ST preferences. As a general rule, covertly investigating your opponent's power base, weak spots and strong suits is the way I handle this kind of things. Uncover as much covert information as you can about him/her and then strike in the most fitting manner, which does not need to be physical at all.

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            • #7
              MyWifeIsScary. I am not sure. A lot of Primogen NPCs think it is a big deal. This is my first Ventrue which is why I'm curious.

              Haquim That would fit this game perfectly. My ST loves intrigue, politics, and pvp. Even if it is directly physical pvp.

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              • #8
                If there are no other Ventrue in the city then how much power does he have over you? My advice is use dignitas as a weapon against him. Follow his commands and do little favors for him. That way if he moves against you it reflects poorly on him, both to Elysium and to the wider clan.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Talvas View Post
                  So, I am sure it has come up for many. What do you do when a higher status Ventrue PC shows up? One bent on throwing yours down? You have to be subtle, because he is your board superior, but how do you keep him from ruining your unlife?
                  Why does he want to ruin your life?

                  Do you have something he wants? Did you do something to offend him? Is he just, perhaps worst of all, bored?

                  If you have something he wants, there's a bunch of possible things to do. If you think you can pull it off without being caught, there's always killing him. Frame someone else whose unlife you want to ruin. If that's too dangerous, try to reach a compromise. Just because he can take what you have doesn't mean it's worth the effort: make sure he knows how costly and painful taking that thing is going to be, then try to strike a deal and reach some sort of compromise. Open high but not unreasonably high so he can negotiate down. Let him save face and feel he got you to bend knee.

                  If you did something to offend him, swallow your pride and apologize. Offer a boon so it's not just words. Do it in front of clanmates so he looks like an ass if he doesn't accept.

                  If he's just doing it for shits and giggles, well, you can't really make a rational appeal against that. Find a way to redirect his ennui/sadism/whatever into rage against someone else. Attack his interests in a way he can't ignore and frame somebody else for the crime.

                  What if you're the Prince or senechal under a torpored Prince? Can he unseat you or the prince?
                  If you're in torpor, you're not the prince anymore. It's rough, but that's how it is. Unless you're a Mithras and overwhelmingly stronger than everybody else, when you take a long nap, you've surrendered your throne.

                  And even Mithras still had to reestablish his authority. It was just easier for him.

                  If you're lucky, your successor might choose to hand your throne back. You might have a seneschal and other followers who would rather you be prince than someone else. There's a bunch of ways to make this more likely, from blood bonds to dirt on everyone to being the compromise candidate who the most elders can live with. It's basically the same advice that applies to becoming prince in the first place. Ideally, you'll have a wide range of sticks and carrots that make a bunch of vampires want to reinstate you as prince. They might not love you, but so long as your continued rule is in their best interests, that's good enough.

                  Don't simply rely upon your seneschal's/another vampire's goodwill.

                  And for the love of god, don't let them know where you're sleeping.

                  What are your duties to this new Ventrue?
                  Not a lot. You owe him deference and courtesy as an elder clanmate, and should assume your clanmates value his opinion and trust his word more than yours. But participation in the Ventrue clan hierarchy is ultimately optional. Ventrue do it because they want to (and some degree of peer pressure), not because they're commanded to.

                  How can you make him look bad?
                  Is he trying to ruin your life for unreasonable reasons? That looks pretty bad.


                  A situation kinda similar to this was an ongoing plotline for a Ventrue PC in my game. She hated a member of her clan's Board and wanted to ruin him. He thought she was a fuckhead and that was staining the rest of the clan's opinion of her.

                  The problem was she was a Status 0 fledgling and didn't have any clout when she tried to establish relationships with other clanmates. The Ventrue closed ranks and basically said her acceptance into the clan was conditional upon (hated Board member's) opinion of her. She made a couple attempts to get around that and her clanmates just doubled down. She ultimately didn't have to join the clan. There were benefits if she did, which she wanted, but the Ventrue didn't inherently see it as a punishment to keep her out. Some more sympathetic clanmates tried to help her smooth things over, which took the form of a semi-public apology and pledged boon made to (hated Board member) in front of several witnesses. When the Board finally voted on whether to accept her into the clan after she completed her agoge, the other Board members all delegated their votes to (hated Board member). It was about as direct a message the Board could send they stood behind their own, but in the end, he let her into the clan.

                  Well, not too long later, a non-Ventrue enemy of (hated Board member) framed (hated Board member) for a Masquerade breach tied to the PC, and made it look like (hated Board member) wanted to use it as blackmail over the PC. She was pretty chessed off. She went to another Board member, brought proof of the Masquerade breach, and implied it was the work of a rogue ghoul in (hated Board member's) employ. She doubted the clan would go along if she fingered (hated Board member) directly, but figured she could at least make him look bad to his peers. "Oh, he can't even control his own ghouls, look at what a mess they made."

                  Except the other Board member was cool to even that. His idea of a solution was to invite (hated Board member) to a sit-down with the PC where "they" (re: the two Board members) decided to quietly sweep the Masquerade breach under the rug. (Hated Board member) got to save face, the PC got to improve her opinion in his eyes, and the non-hated Board member looked good for arranging the whole thing. The clan came out ahead, right?

                  Except the PC still hated (hated Board member) and wanted to fuck him over. She finally got sick of trying to do so through Ventrue channels, waited a couple months so it seemed like she was happy with that outcome, then jumped him with some allies and diablerized him.

                  If you really want to dick over an elder clanmate, it's hard to do better than direct action. Status and tradition among the Ventrue means nothing in a physical fight.

                  You just have to not get caught. The PC is still working to keep that covered up.
                  Last edited by False Epiphany; 02-25-2020, 05:02 AM.


                  Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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                  • #10
                    My Character is Seneschal under a torpored Prince... I managed to get a minor boon on the new guy.

                    After trash talking my character awhile, the player quit yesterday so... guess I won.

                    I did use dignitas quite well, it is what got me to the top so far too. All RP and boons wrangling, haven't had to kill anyone yet.

                    It was looking like he would unseat us, but the political climate is one where I have solid support or fear from most people, seriously though, dignitas.

                    Anyone who thinks all those rules in the Ventrue clanbook and LotC are too stuffy and constraining, isnt using it right.

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