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  • V5 - Why humans are so strong in this edition of the game?

    Check the sheets from V5 corebook

    Regular humans:

    Police Detective (Human)
    Standard Dice Pools: Physical 4, Social 3, Mental 4 Secondary Attributes: Health 6, Willpower 5 Exceptional Dice Pools: Athletics 5, Firearms 5, Investigation 6, Streetwise 5

    Gangster (Human)
    Standard Dice Pools: Physical 4, Social 3, Mental 3 Secondary Attributes: Health 6, Willpower 4 Exceptional Dice Pools: Brawl 5, Firearms 5, Intimidation 5, Larceny 5, Streetwise 7

    Faith Hunter (Human)
    Standard Dice Pools: Physical 4, Social 4, Mental 5 Secondary Attributes: Health 6, Willpower 8 Exceptional Dice Pools: Academics 7, Awareness 7, Melee 6, Investigation 7, Occult 8 Special: Some hunters carry chemical or mystic imbuements in their blood, giving them exceptional abilities to find and confront the undead. They add four dice to any pool to resist or contest a vampiric Discipline. Drinking their blood inflicts 4 points of aggravated damage unless the vampire can win a Stamina + Resolve test at Difficulty 5.


    Now, check vampires:

    Vampires, the undead predators of night yada yada blood gods yada yada terryfing monsters blah blah blah:

    ATTRIBUTES One at 4; three at 3; four at 2; one at 1.

    SKILLS:
    ■ jack of all trades: One Skill at 3; eight Skills at 2; ten Skills at 1
    ■ balanced: Three Skills at 3; five Skills at 2; seven Skills at 1
    ■ specialist: One Skill at 4; three Skills at 3; three Skills at 2; three Skills at 1

    Ancillae (Embraced between 1780 and 1940) have 35 experience points.
    Neonate have 15 experience points.

    TRAIT COSTS: EXPERIENCE:
    Increase Attribute New level x 5
    Increase Skill New level x 3
    New Specialty 3
    Clan Discipline New level x 5
    Other Discipline New level x 7
    Caitiff Discipline New level x 6
    Blood Sorcery Ritual Ritual level x 3
    Thin-blood Formula Formula level x 3
    Advantage 3 per dot
    Blood Potency New level x 10


    So, even if me character survive for 200 years, it's not a big deal be a Ancillae if he can be obliterated by a random cop. I don't feel rewarded enough within this edition... Why should I care about playing a long-term game if I know my character, after 200 years, will be at the same power level as a Police Detective and weaker than human beings (Faith Hunter)? How many XP the sheets from the humans above have?

  • #2
    It's what you deserve for buying volume 5, you've only yourself to blame...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Vamps Like Us View Post
      It's what you deserve for buying volume 5, you've only yourself to blame...
      Lmaooo. Volume? Srsly? Youre the first person I saw using volume instead of edition xP

      Comment


      • #4
        Sounds like V5's designers wanted humans to be "a threat", and massively over-corrected.

        Adhering to themes of being under threat by mortals aside, I don't really understand what the appeal would be for playing a character that can so easily be jobbed by a random beat cop. Yes, VtM always had a bit of a problem with vampire PCs being so much stronger than mortals. But that was also kind of the appeal of running an immortal night predator. The power fantasy wasn't a bug in earlier editions, but a Feature.

        Evidently, V5's creators disagreed, to the game's detriment.


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        • #5
          It seems every cop is a veteran ex-Navy Seal.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
            It seems every cop is a veteran ex-Navy Seal.
            Sorry, I understood something wrong?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
              Sounds like V5's designers wanted humans to be "a threat", and massively over-corrected.

              Adhering to themes of being under threat by mortals aside, I don't really understand what the appeal would be for playing a character that can so easily be jobbed by a random beat cop. Yes, VtM always had a bit of a problem with vampire PCs being so much stronger than mortals. But that was also kind of the appeal of running an immortal night predator. The power fantasy wasn't a bug in earlier editions, but a Feature.

              Evidently, V5's creators disagreed, to the game's detriment.
              I agree. Its really good when you have potence 4 you can use Lift/Broke on car, or have massive powers against humans. And above all else, be immortal mean getting stronger and stronger at the point of turning a blood god in prior editions.

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              • #8
                [redacted]
                Really though, V5 is about playing a loser. Something about you is wrong and you have to hide it, everyone else is better than you by virtue of not being you. Humans aren't weak fools and they won't fall for your charade. This only works if you nerf the fuck outa being a vampire and give super drugs to the heroic police/mob. You can't feel persecuted if humans were realistic and your own side was competent. God is punishing vampires, for a change.


                Edit: I see now the mistake, but still, these mortals have some very out-there stats. A common criminal has a streetwise roll of 7? The faith hunter has numerous 7/8 knowledges? Acid-for-blood is normal for those with faith?
                Last edited by MyWifeIsScary; 02-17-2020, 04:38 PM.


                V5 is not VTM

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
                  The power fantasy wasn't a bug in earlier editions, but a Feature.

                  Evidently, V5's creators disagreed, to the game's detriment.
                  And they skipped (while copying other parts from it) how VtR 2e ensures this feature has a lot of benefits to the idea that Vampire is supposed to be a horror genre game: by making power fantasies a Humanity trap.

                  In VtR 2e's Humanity mechanics, the penalties for being an awesome immortal monster that tanks gunfire and rips the engine out of a cop's car before beating him to death with it start very slight. Your sire and other senior vampires are trying to warn you not to do it, but like a teen with their first car speeding and not getting more than a warning from the cops, neonates don't appreciate the consequences until they experience it for themselves. Acting inhuman erodes your Humanity and the penalties start getting worse (in a clever bit, in VtR 2e Clan Banes don't actually hit you until you drop below Humanity 7 the first time as an example) and worse.

                  If you get wrapped up in the power fantasy of being a vampires, you destroy your Humanity in the process, and regaining it is going to be a long slog if you even see a point to it.

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                  • #10
                    That detective is not weak but how will a dice pool of 5 for firearms obliterate an ancillae?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Heliodromus View Post
                      That detective is not weak but how will a dice pool of 5 for firearms obliterate an ancillae?
                      I mean a cop should not be a threat to a 200y vampire. The fight betwen the two are wrongly symethrical in v5.

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                      • #12
                        I remember back in older editions that a 4 Strength meant that you could bench press 400 pounds and an Intelligence of 4 meant you had an IQ of 140. I pick those two because those are two metrics that are pretty commonly used to determine strength and intelligence. Only 0.38% of people have an IQ of 140 or above and a very small percentage of people, usually only body builders and strength based athletes, can bench press 400 or more.

                        Now all police detectives are as smart as physics professors and strong as body builders. Did they change the attribute scale? I see some of these people have skills of greater than 5, did they change the skill maximum to 10 instead of 5? What is going on here?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                          And they skipped (while copying other parts from it) how VtR 2e ensures this feature has a lot of benefits to the idea that Vampire is supposed to be a horror genre game: by making power fantasies a Humanity trap.

                          In VtR 2e's Humanity mechanics, the penalties for being an awesome immortal monster that tanks gunfire and rips the engine out of a cop's car before beating him to death with it start very slight. Your sire and other senior vampires are trying to warn you not to do it, but like a teen with their first car speeding and not getting more than a warning from the cops, neonates don't appreciate the consequences until they experience it for themselves. Acting inhuman erodes your Humanity and the penalties start getting worse (in a clever bit, in VtR 2e Clan Banes don't actually hit you until you drop below Humanity 7 the first time as an example) and worse.

                          If you get wrapped up in the power fantasy of being a vampires, you destroy your Humanity in the process, and regaining it is going to be a long slog if you even see a point to it.
                          So you should not use the powers?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Heliodromus View Post
                            That detective is not weak but how will a dice pool of 5 for firearms obliterate an ancillae?
                            This, the rest of you are misreading those statblocks.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post

                              This, the rest of you are misreading those statblocks.
                              Oh, wait, those are dice pools. Does that mean that a police detective has 4 dice for physical rolls, meaning that his Strength plus his skill on some generic physical activity is 4, not his physical attributes. If that is the case, it makes more sense.

                              I don't have V5 for I may be confused.

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