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Should Kuei-Jin be in V5?

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  • Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

    I like this entire post. And I agree with its conclusion. But I also doubt there is way make a simple (in terms of game mechanics) generic, universal vampire or hungry ghost that is not a Kindred. Or at least not one fans will embrace.
    Honestly, I think the best way to incorporate KotE in a broader context would be a wholesale rewrite of the Risen from Wraith; perhaps even tying in Mummy as a specific brand of magic that makes the process easier.

    My specific thinking is that Risen might be a general type, with KotE and Mummies as specific cultural expressions of that supernatural type with strengths and weaknesses akin Clans or Traditions, find 3-5 more expressions (perhaps the classic revenant/vengeful ghost concept might be one).

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    • Originally posted by Chris24601 View Post
      Honestly, I think the best way to incorporate KotE in a broader context would be a wholesale rewrite of the Risen from Wraith; perhaps even tying in Mummy as a specific brand of magic that makes the process easier.

      My specific thinking is that Risen might be a general type, with KotE and Mummies as specific cultural expressions of that supernatural type with strengths and weaknesses akin Clans or Traditions, find 3-5 more expressions (perhaps the classic revenant/vengeful ghost concept might be one).
      I like all of this - but it might be something best handled by fan supplement.

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      • Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
        I like all of this - but it might be something best handled by fan supplement.
        Possibly. Or it might be something that would play a larger role in a potential Wr5 since one of the original goals when Paradox took over was a “One World of Darkness” where all the supernaturals are on the same playing field and Risen can interact with the other splats WAY more easily than Wraiths typically do.

        I will say though that I’d really need to see what at least W5 looks like mechanically before I could really judge how well Risen might be adapted into the 5e system.

        I mean, I had a VERY easy time creating streamlined mummies and KotE that referenced only mechanics within V20, by using a slightly looser interpretation of clan weaknesses that included straight up trade-offs in addition to weaknesses; but the powers in V5 are a lot more mechanically specific and physical states simplified in ways that might make it harder to do a proper Risen concept.

        Within the complexity of the X20 and earlier rules the associations that make KotE more a culturally specific expression of a Risen are clearer... ex. instead of a conduit for the Risen’s Shadow, the KotE incorporate the Shadow directly into themselves in the form of the Po (which enables them to sidestep some of the normal difficulties in becoming a Risen) while Vulnerability to sunlight might be their Risen type weakness (akin to a clan weakness, but for different types of Risen).

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        • Yeah, I think, for me, the biggest challenge for the people developing WtA5 is (or was) not only make a Rage (or similar) marker/tracker that works in a way similar to Hunger in V5 but isn't an exact copy (because the idea is awesome, but each supernatural should have it work in different ways). Not only that, but reworking the expansive setting of Werewolf, and especially the Umbras and Spiritual World (and the spirits of course) are a big deal, like, for more than half the other game lines. So they could try to make the scope smaller, give just some tidbits of info, just enough to work but no enough to understand it completely (I guess the Forsaken did something similar). And well, we are kind of under the impression that the Umbra and Underworld are both under a shitstorm, are still under I should say. But these new definitions for the setting will be very important, so must be handled with care, although games of Mummy and Demon are kind of made with that in mind....

          Either way, I think the shake up of the spiritual storm (which I hope is given other reason other than the spiritual bombs, that don't make sense for many settings to know about) is cool for the World of Darkness, especially for Werewolf and the Wan Kuei. And I'm waiting for WtA5 to make some conclusions on my own headcanon/homebrew of the Hungry Dead. And the Drowned Legacies and Laibon would probably get some too.

          But.... a Risen outbreak could be possible because of it (I almost remember somewhere stating that the Risen frequency has gotten higher because of the Spiritual Storm) and as such, the devs. could try to make Wan Kuei suffer the Second Breath even faster (or the opposite) and/or make some changes about them, and even mash them up with the other Risen, only that they have their own society, philosophy and developed powers. Although it would take some work lorewise, and quite some time to adapt all (or most of) the functions and distinctions between the two, and there ain't exactly a popular option here (it has been mostly to keep it down, and wait for local companies to contact them for it, if this Forum's information is right).
          In some way I hope for Werewolf and Wraith 5th edition to come out before anything playable on the Wan Kuei (otherwise I think it would be lacking in depth, but it doesn't prevent it from being any good), and also before Mage (I love Mage, but the system M20 left me confused and the setting for me is a mess, that needs both mechanically and setting-wise to be treated by a mature and experienced 5th edition team).
          ...I may have ran a train of thought a bit too far from the forum's tracks ={


          Strange... When coincidence seems too convenient, I prefer to call it fate.

          -Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain d=

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          • Originally posted by Chris24601 View Post
            Possibly. Or it might be something that would play a larger role in a potential Wr5 since one of the original goals when Paradox took over was a “One World of Darkness” where all the supernaturals are on the same playing field and Risen can interact with the other splats WAY more easily than Wraiths typically do.

            I will say though that I’d really need to see what at least W5 looks like mechanically before I could really judge how well Risen might be adapted into the 5e system.

            I mean, I had a VERY easy time creating streamlined mummies and KotE that referenced only mechanics within V20, by using a slightly looser interpretation of clan weaknesses that included straight up trade-offs in addition to weaknesses; but the powers in V5 are a lot more mechanically specific and physical states simplified in ways that might make it harder to do a proper Risen concept.

            Within the complexity of the X20 and earlier rules the associations that make KotE more a culturally specific expression of a Risen are clearer... ex. instead of a conduit for the Risen’s Shadow, the KotE incorporate the Shadow directly into themselves in the form of the Po (which enables them to sidestep some of the normal difficulties in becoming a Risen) while Vulnerability to sunlight might be their Risen type weakness (akin to a clan weakness, but for different types of Risen).
            If you're being a stickler for actual differences between a Vigor Soul and a Jungian Shadow, that might not work out so well. Broadly speaking, the systems differ in that the Po should theoretically be a mass of all of a Wraith's Passions, Shadow or otherwise, while the Hun covers the Fetters. You can ignore this, of course, but then, you aren't really using the cosmological concepts, so you might as well just use the Jungian terms and give them an Angst rating in place of Po.

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