Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

V5 - Lupine power level

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Looking back over at the various editions, I think I’m alright with W20’s sidestepping mechanics.

    As for claws, the most dangerous aggravated damage vampires receive is from claws, Protean claws or werewolf claws. I’d certainly be for soaking it. Let’s not even talk about balance against werewolves, just internal balance. Aggravated damage, like feral claws, is such a huge force multiplier that it is a major factor in unbalancing all three physical disciplines. Thematically, it also undermines the importance of traditional vampire banes.

    That is a bit of a tangent, but just the one minor tweak of letting vampires soak aggravated damage makes a big difference in balance, though it’s still far from being equal.

    Comment


    • #47
      Just to return to my original point. I am sure kindreds can kill a lupine in many ways. All I am just saying is that specifically, in the book Chicago By Night, there are too many examples of young, weak, and not very resourceful vampires doing it. And some of them are described as just charging at one and taking him down. It's like in Chicago there are werechiwawas.
      Last edited by Godforsaken; 03-05-2020, 03:39 AM.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
        Do you actually believe that?

        To some extent, yeah.
        Obviously, every splat has its physical/social/mental characters within itself. Werewolf has five auspices, a few smart tribes, a few charismatic tribes, , Mage has kung-fu mages and the new world order, Vampire has physical clans like Brujah and Gangrel and mental clans like Malkavians and Pre-5 Tremere.

        But on the whole, yeah. The Weakest Red Talon Theurge is a huge physical threat. The mages with sub-4 intellegence still have a huge philosophical paradigm and still bend laws to get their desired result. Every single vampire clan has at least one social discipline, only a couple of bloodlines do without, and those are artificial.

        Garou are meant to be powerhouses, vampires are meant to be social bombs, and mages are meant to conquer all with the power of their mind.
        Rage is meant to be powerful, it's meant to be a tradeoff, a double edged sword, where gaining more rage makes you better at fighting the impossible war, but it isolates you from society. Werewolf 'wisdom' often isn't actual wisdom too.
        Obviously, in WTA, you can be social and talk through problems, but the theme of the game is RAGE and the great physical violence you inflict with that. Werewolf is the one game in the main line that has a fuckin' monster manual filled with stuff to kill in the corebook.


        For ease of reference: "VTM" means every edition that isn't V5, because V5... it's a very different product, and I don't want to write "Pre-V5" because that's lame and I'm lazy.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Godforsaken View Post
          Just to return to my original point. I am sure kindreds can kill a lupine in many ways. All I am just saying is that specifically, in the book Chicago By Night, there are too many examples of young, weak, and not very resourceful vampires doing it. And some of them are described as just charging at one and taking him down. It's like in Chicago there are werechiwawas.

          Like I said before- Bad Writing.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post


            Like I said before- Bad Writing.
            Yeah.. this entire book feels like a Reddit fan fiction.

            I am actually quite a fan of the V5 system, I really like the game itself. But god, the writing is so thick with politics and agenda.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Godforsaken View Post
              .
              I am actually quite a fan of the V5 system, I really like the game itself. But god, the writing is so thick with politics and agenda.
              I'm very sorry to hear such. I guess I won't get V5 after all.

              Comment


              • #52
                For those of you who spoke about ambushes and smart tactics vampires can use, this is from the Chicago book:
                "...Kevin grabbed a broadsword off the wall and helped hold off the invading forces (Lupines). Kevin slew the pack leader in battle..."
                Sayed Kevin, have str 4, melee 2, and fortitude of 4. Werewolf in the V5 book have 6 str, 5 brawl, Celerity 4, Fortitude 5, Potence 5....

                "...He prefers a deal, but he’ll send his Hounds to hunt the werewolves down if he has to."
                The "Hounds" that are mentioned in the book don't have any impressive combat skills, disciplines or even resources to back this sentence. Again, comparing them to the common werewolf stats that are on the core V5 book I would say that a single lupine will most likely kill most if not all of those "Hounds".

                I was really looking forward to running a campaign with this sourcebook, but I guess I will have to change a lot of things if I don't want the PCs to have delusions about "hunting down lupines".

                Comment


                • #53
                  I don't think V5 can be chalked with having "nerfed" Lupine power level just because of that writeup (at least not yet).

                  As you said, such poorly tought "tactics" would be, at least, extremely unwise to use against the sample Lupine in V5 core: That Lupine it's an example. It may not be the weakest Lupine, but it sure as heck shouldn't be a rare "Supersayan" Lupine - it's supposed to serve as a guide for encounters to STs after all, it would be extremely poor writting to have it be an exceptionaly potent one.

                  Time will tell, but it wouldn't be the first time a supplement misrepresents "power levels" in the fluff. It doesn't need to represent an authorial choice to nerf anything
                  Last edited by Aleph; 03-05-2020, 10:13 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Honestly, I feel the stat block for werewolves in the core book is way exaggerated. IMO, werewolves would be designed the same way that vamps are, with a human stat build with the werewolf template added on. So a younger wolf would have just a number of dots of gifts equivalent to a neonate vampire, with some physical stat boosts for the different werewolf forms. As a general rule, the average werewolf is designed to be physically Superior to the average vampire, while vampires hold the edge on social and mental abilities.

                    The impression I get is that the V5 system will give the other playable supernatural creatures in WOD a similar treatment as VTR in that there will be a mechanical equivalent to Blood Potency for werewolves or mages, although obviously different in concept.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Godforsaken View Post

                      Yeah.. this entire book feels like a Reddit fan fiction.

                      I am actually quite a fan of the V5 system, I really like the game itself. But god, the writing is so thick with politics and agenda.
                      I disagree with the V5 system. Scrap all the stuff imported from CofD, don't even know why they did that. Bring back the natural Storyteller System, not this "Storypath" thing. Do away with the Touchstone, Hunger, and the other nonsense. Bring back Perception and Appearance. I can't fathom why they changed it and installed that stuff from VTR.

                      Was it to make combat work faster? Thats the only thing I consider good from the CofD variation of the Storyteller System- the streamlined combat. But the whole base diff always "8" (WTF, why is it so high?), the weird morality, etc. Has to go and only stay with CofD. It should've never have been incorporated into oWoD.

                      Improve how combat works instead of importing an entirety new system from whole different gameline.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

                        I disagree with the V5 system. Scrap all the stuff imported from CofD, don't even know why they did that. Bring back the natural Storyteller System, not this "Storypath" thing. Do away with the Touchstone, Hunger, and the other nonsense. Bring back Perception and Appearance. I can't fathom why they changed it and installed that stuff from VTR.

                        Was it to make combat work faster? Thats the only thing I consider good from the CofD variation of the Storyteller System- the streamlined combat. But the whole base diff always "8" (WTF, why is it so high?), the weird morality, etc. Has to go and only stay with CofD. It should've never have been incorporated into oWoD.

                        Improve how combat works instead of importing an entirety new system from whole different gameline.

                        I just finished a long campaign of Changeling: The Lost. It is nothing like V5. There are a few similarities, yes. But, as someone who played WoD since 1st edition, I can tell you that V5 is much closer to WoD then to CoD. And I love the hunger system and humanity and all that.

                        The main difference now is writing. Back in the day, they focused on the game and the fiction, and now it's like a band of activists joined together to write their own vampire utopia fiction. Every black vampire was appressed, every female vampire had to fight and show the world that she is strong, and every white guy is evil and corrupt, and every second vampire identifies as something else. A vampire with Humanity of 2, that murders for fun, study death and watch corpses rot, will kick your ass if you will threaten their LGBTQIA+ friends. What is this? as if this vampire cares about anything at all, lol.

                        The writing is bad, repetitive, they try to drill these ideas into your head over and over until you are not reading about a World of Darkness and vampires and monsters because it's "problematic" now.

                        And this agenda and focus on things that are not actually the game, that leads to inconsistencies like the power level of werewolves. Because writing this helps send the message that this appressed vampire is actually strong and big and tough and they hunt werewolves now.

                        In my country, white people are a minority and seeing this self-loathing and flagellation in a game I love is pathetic and sad.

                        I am sorry I rumbled way out of the subject. I am sorry.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Gurkhal View Post

                          I'm very sorry to hear such. I guess I won't get V5 after all.

                          If you like the V5 system I still highly recommend getting it, especially if you're already familiar with the setting from prior editions.


                          I’m a writer. A storyteller. They’re my passions. They’re what I do. The stories I tell, they are my mythologies. Like the Norse tales of Odin, Thor, and Loki, or the Celtic fables of Lugh or Cú Chulainn, I want them to be the kind that people retell. They are the legacies I wish to leave behind.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

                            I disagree with the V5 system. Scrap all the stuff imported from CofD, don't even know why they did that. Bring back the natural Storyteller System, not this "Storypath" thing. Do away with the Touchstone, Hunger, and the other nonsense. Bring back Perception and Appearance. I can't fathom why they changed it and installed that stuff from VTR.

                            Was it to make combat work faster? Thats the only thing I consider good from the CofD variation of the Storyteller System- the streamlined combat. But the whole base diff always "8" (WTF, why is it so high?), the weird morality, etc. Has to go and only stay with CofD. It should've never have been incorporated into oWoD.

                            Improve how combat works instead of importing an entirety new system from whole different gameline.
                            There are of course exceptions, but appearance as an attribute just doesn't consistently work very well, and often ended up being either a dump stat, or an attribute that you bought into but didn't get much use out of and certainly wasn't worth the cost of attributes. As for Perception, Wits covers it now, which works fine and makes sense.


                            I’m a writer. A storyteller. They’re my passions. They’re what I do. The stories I tell, they are my mythologies. Like the Norse tales of Odin, Thor, and Loki, or the Celtic fables of Lugh or Cú Chulainn, I want them to be the kind that people retell. They are the legacies I wish to leave behind.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Archasimos View Post


                              If you like the V5 system I still highly recommend getting it, especially if you're already familiar with the setting from prior editions.
                              Thank you. But in regards to rules I like to keep it as simple as possible a I'm not a "rules guy". In my opinion 1e Requiem is my favorite system with its simplicity which allows me to focus on the story and the characters. So I think I'll use the Vampire translation guide to simply port VtM/DA over to VtR rules and go from there.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Gurkhal View Post

                                Thank you. But in regards to rules I like to keep it as simple as possible a I'm not a "rules guy". In my opinion 1e Requiem is my favorite system with its simplicity which allows me to focus on the story and the characters. So I think I'll use the Vampire translation guide to simply port VtM/DA over to VtR rules and go from there.
                                That's actually why I like V5. I feel its rules are much more elegant and streamlined than prior editions. I'm a writer and prefer a system that aids a narrative rather than bogging it down. I want good rules that provide a framework or engine for the characters and story, not loads of crunch, though I do like a moderate amount of crunch. I'm a big fan of D&D 5e for the same reason.
                                Last edited by Archasimos; 03-06-2020, 01:03 AM.


                                I’m a writer. A storyteller. They’re my passions. They’re what I do. The stories I tell, they are my mythologies. Like the Norse tales of Odin, Thor, and Loki, or the Celtic fables of Lugh or Cú Chulainn, I want them to be the kind that people retell. They are the legacies I wish to leave behind.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X