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  • Material on Scandinavia in VtM

    This is just a general question. But are there any official books that detail Scandinavia from a VtM (also including DA) perspective to more than three or four paragraphs?

    I'm playing with the idea of a game up there, as I feel that I need some variation from the numerous campaigns my group has played in another setting for two or three years by now, and so thought that I would check for what official stuff there is before I move on to my own designs.

    The only thing I recall hearing was that its considered Gangrel territory but not much than that and that there are the stereotypical vikings in the "Wolves of the Sea" supplement. But I hope and suspect there might be more than that.

  • #2
    Having lived in Sweden for most of a year, Scandinavia would be a bad place for vampires.

    - The Beurocracy's tragically inefficient, but they're really not corrupt. The way politics works is straightforward and ideal. The living standards of people isn't drastically different; both millionaires and wage slaves don't live fundamentally different life styles from eachother; they all look middle class. Vampires need corruption and inequality to really function well with the masquerade up.

    -The Sun hardly sets in the summer, and I lived in the south of sweden. Midnight looks like dusk or dawn.


    The population would be very small. Vampires would be relying on esoteric and risk-adverse means to get blood, and I don't know really how vampires deal with being so far north and having all-day summers.

    Edit:
    I wouldn't be survived if Scandinavia was painted as a place where the wolves had won. The Lupines have removed most of the tumors.
    Last edited by MyWifeIsScary; 03-08-2020, 06:25 AM.


    For ease of reference: "VTM" means every edition that isn't V5, because V5... it's a very different product, and I don't want to write "Pre-V5" because that's lame and I'm lazy.

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    • #3
      Wolves of the Sea - https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Wolves_of_the_Sea and V20 Dark Ages Companion - https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/V2...Ages_Companion

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      • #4
        Places that near the poles should really lack a year-round vampire population. They should be places nomads hunt half the year, before moving towards the other pole.

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        • #5
          MyWifeIsScary
          Well, I'm happy that you had a good experience with Sweden. For myself I've been living in it for almost 33 years and I still think it can work pretty well for a VtM game. Will it need to be modified according to the World of Darkness ways? Probably, but life isn't an utopia here and with Neoliberal influence infecting every party in parlament, except the one most to the left, I really see alot of potential for things going south.

          Yeah, summers are nice but really, that's more flavor than a problem to me.

          In regards to population Sweden does have somewhat north of 10 million people and its really not evenly spread out. Hence much more dense around the three big cities for example, and much less people in the north. So yeah, most country towns probably won't have a dozen Kindred but while it may work a bit different I once again see it more as flavor than an argument it can't be used.

          trueann Didn't know about DV20 Companion. I'll look closer on that and see if it has stuff I could use.

          CajunKhan Seems very reasonable to have nomadic Kindred moving around in the north.

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          • #6
            If you want to run a campaign in a country where the sun basically never fully sets for months at a time, a good idea might be to houserule the sunlight weakness waaayyy down.

            Maybe make it so that only direct sunlight burns vampires, allowing them to go out during the day so long as they stay in areas full of tall, densely packed buildings. Basically play it like Angel.

            Or do it like the original Dracula, where sunlight removes powers rather than doing damage. Vampires have to hunt carefully during the summer because most of their powers don't work for most of the day, but can still function as basically mildly enhanced muggers.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gurkhal View Post
              MyWifeIsScary
              Well, I'm happy that you had a good experience with Sweden. For myself I've been living in it for almost 33 years and I still think it can work pretty well for a VtM game. Will it need to be modified according to the World of Darkness ways? Probably, but life isn't an utopia here and with Neoliberal influence infecting every party in parlament, except the one most to the left, I really see alot of potential for things going south.

              Yeah, summers are nice but really, that's more flavor than a problem to me.

              In regards to population Sweden does have somewhat north of 10 million people and its really not evenly spread out. Hence much more dense around the three big cities for example, and much less people in the north. So yeah, most country towns probably won't have a dozen Kindred but while it may work a bit different I once again see it more as flavor than an argument it can't be used.
              .
              We left end of january, I actually didn't have a great time. I was poor and struggled to get permits and registry under the beurocratic system, my partner hated her phd job, we couldn't find an apartment due to the housing crisis, and we were having a baby (The Maternity leave was very jenerous and in fairness the way PHDs work in sweden were good, but her specific thing sucked and we left before she could finish) . Most of my friends were students from elsewhere in europe, Swedish food is bland and expensive.

              Oh and your language is lame and you have no right to mock the Danes


              I'm under no illusion that Sweden is perfect, but you really lack a lot of the problems that really enable vampires to operate. Swedes are more likely to report crimes to a police they trust will take things seriously in comparison to many other nations in europe. Swedes don't really have big societal devisions, even with the migrant crisis. Despite the housing crisis, there isn't many homeless (Someone told me the migrants that hang outside your only four supermarket chains aren't really homeless, but I don't really know enough about that)




              Food wise there's room for Casanovas, blood banks, ?neo-pagan rituals? Feeding on the sleeping is very risky, There's no room for Brujah knocking people down to take their blood. There's very little room for murder becoming a solution for problems.

              Sweden would be a realm for vampires with Auspex, Obfuscate and dominate. A very careful, very small community that tiptoes. They want to erode the society into something that works for them, but it's difficult to make the big moves needed without meeting resistance.

              Since you're a swede, obviously you know more than me, but in context with the rest of Europe it's a very sterile place for vampires.


              For ease of reference: "VTM" means every edition that isn't V5, because V5... it's a very different product, and I don't want to write "Pre-V5" because that's lame and I'm lazy.

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              • #8
                Love to learn about different places I'll probably never go so thanks for the thread and the insight from those that have lived there. It would be fun to read about different countries from members in those places. I never really thought about northern sun problems and admit I would have messed it up if I had run a game there.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                  We left end of january, I actually didn't have a great time. I was poor and struggled to get permits and registry under the beurocratic system, my partner hated her phd job, we couldn't find an apartment due to the housing crisis, and we were having a baby (The Maternity leave was very jenerous and in fairness the way PHDs work in sweden were good, but her specific thing sucked and we left before she could finish) . Most of my friends were students from elsewhere in europe, Swedish food is bland and expensive.

                  Oh and your language is lame and you have no right to mock the Danes


                  I'm under no illusion that Sweden is perfect, but you really lack a lot of the problems that really enable vampires to operate. Swedes are more likely to report crimes to a police they trust will take things seriously in comparison to many other nations in europe. Swedes don't really have big societal devisions, even with the migrant crisis. Despite the housing crisis, there isn't many homeless (Someone told me the migrants that hang outside your only four supermarket chains aren't really homeless, but I don't really know enough about that)




                  Food wise there's room for Casanovas, blood banks, ?neo-pagan rituals? Feeding on the sleeping is very risky, There's no room for Brujah knocking people down to take their blood. There's very little room for murder becoming a solution for problems.

                  Sweden would be a realm for vampires with Auspex, Obfuscate and dominate. A very careful, very small community that tiptoes. They want to erode the society into something that works for them, but it's difficult to make the big moves needed without meeting resistance.

                  Since you're a swede, obviously you know more than me, but in context with the rest of Europe it's a very sterile place for vampires.
                  Very sorry to hear you didn't have a great time here, but I'm happy for your baby.

                  Our language is the most beautiful on earth and we if we don't have the right to mock our ancestral enemies, the Danes, we take that right. :P

                  I'll spare you my comments on the flaws of Swedish society and our domestic politics.

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                  • #10
                    Both the geography chapters of "Victorian Age Vampire" and "Guide to the Anarchs" have a couple of pages devoted to the region. But for the most part there's just a bunch of smaller references spread throughout all the source-books. You can track those down by searching the wiki, for example: https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Sp...rch?query=Oslo

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                    • #11
                      In DAV Companion there was a chapter about viking vampire and Wolves of the Sea is also a book covering that theme. The most important characters, probably, are the All High (Odin) and Brunhilde, they are Gangrel elders both.

                      In the first and second edition of Vampire Masquerade, Scandinavias was depicted as a Sabbat stronghold, they writers repeatedly refer to something as "the Scandinavian retreat". In Revised they overwritte this, Scandivania was no more Sabbat territory and that "retreat" was bullshit, a lie told to the Camarilla. The true Sabbat was always strong in the East and South of Europe.

                      In 5th edition Anarchs there is a short interview with a groupie that feeds and follows heavy metal bands. Also one or two interviews about Iceland thin-bloods.

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                      • #12
                        The Storyeteller's Guide to the Sabbat has a lot of information on Scandinavia.

                        We know that in losing the Sabbat-Camarilla wars of the 1500-1700s, that the Sabbat were forced into northern Scandinavia where they went into hiding. So we can assume that it is "controlled" by them, but they keep mainly on the low key. And we're told that the Sabbat of Scandinavia are at the forefront of assembling the Book of Nod, so we can assume that that there are some very important vampires on the Path of Caine there. They are supposed to have some actual pages that date to the Carolingian period.

                        We're also told that Scandinavian Sabbat are very conservative by Sabbat standards, not prone to expansion and open warfare with the Camarilla, and that they dislike the "new" Sabbat - which I assume means how the Sabbat developed after the Second and Third Sabbat Civil War. They rarely share the Vaulderie with other Sabbat and keep to themselves. They are not trusted by the American Sabbat. So we might identify them with the Loyalist faction. We're also told they fear the Gangrel valkyrie.

                        We're also told that many Lasombra anarchs fleed north into Scandinavia after destroying their elders, and that it was there that the Sabbat developed into a real sect. This is when the Sabbat made the decision to flee the Old World and start again in the New World. Another thing is that Ventrue anti-tribu were the ones who convinced the incipient Sabbat to move north into safety. Many Sabbat felt this was cowardice, but the action likely saved the sect in its early days.

                        So there is some very interesting details.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                          I'm under no illusion that Sweden is perfect, but you really lack a lot of the problems that really enable vampires to operate.
                          I disagree. You don't need high crime, mass poverty, and other cliches that dominate WoD discussion in the US in order to run a gothic themed game. (And to be honest, while that portrayal had some basis in fact in the very early nineties when the game was first written, it was out of date with the low crime rate in the US by the end of the nineties). While high crime and such makes an east cover, it just means vampires have to make use of other kinds of cover. Just approach it that the Camarilla elders are more in control, and you don't have the problems with anarchs and Sabbat. And have it that what leaders those sects have, are much more cautious because they know they can be easily squashed.

                          And while Sweden is probably seen as very low crime, that hasn't prevented the rather recent rise in high profile, internationally renown Swedish detective and crime fiction - the Wallander novels and Stieg Larsson's Millenium trilogy. They were certainly able to set crime fiction in Sweden. You just have to approach the crime aspect more low key,

                          And since the WoD is not our world, you can apply the same lens to modern Scandinavia as you can with any other place. What elements exist in that country and city and can be twisted through a gothic lens?

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                          • #14
                            Well a low crime world is a Ventrue and Assamite world. A world where most things are solved politically, and when there is violence, it is in the form of utterly quiet assassinations. Assassinations where one moment there is a vampire, and another moment there is just dust in the wind. A world where the straight-forward tactics of the Brujah and Gangrel are worthless.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Justycar View Post
                              In the first and second edition of Vampire Masquerade, Scandinavias was depicted as a Sabbat stronghold, they writers repeatedly refer to something as "the Scandinavian retreat". In Revised they overwritte this, Scandivania was no more Sabbat territory and that "retreat" was bullshit, a lie told to the Camarilla. The true Sabbat was always strong in the East and South of Europe.
                              There's still references to the Scandinavian Sabbat activity in Revised sourcebooks here and there. For instance in Midnight Siege, so they're certainly still strong enough there to threaten Camarilla domains. Clanbook Tzimisce also referenced the Sabbat retreating north after losing control of their Eastern European heartland to the Camarilla.

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