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  • ICv2 2019 fall

    https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...ames-fall-2019

    Without gloating, or ill will, I'd just like to point out to all, who made hyper-confident claims about V5 being on the list for a couple of quarters, that indeed, it remains to be seen if that was only an initial boom, due to the effect of a new VtM edition being out on the shelves and people buying from nostalgia, curiosity, or just plain impulse, or if it will be a long-term placeholder on the charts.

    It's not to bash V5 either, for falling off. Usually, it's D&D, then Pathfinder, then SW/CoC/SR and then whatever new shiny, that gathered attention, or new edition of an existing game with considerable name recognition came out that quarter. So, it's normal to fall off. Will be interetsing to see, if it comes back.


    If nothing worked, then let's think!

  • #2
    Where have you been? I miss you in this forum.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by blailton View Post
      Where have you been? I miss you in this forum.
      Thanks! On one hand, it's life stuff, but on the rpg side, I'm currently participating as a player in a D&D 3.5 campaign, as our regular group is currently knee-deep in it (and I'm also preparing a secondary Ravenloft campaign with the same, as a GM) and I'm enjoying coming back to it, discowering and re-discowering tons of stuff I've missed back then or forgot since. Also, I greatly enjoy homebrewing the hell out of it, because I like the base system, but PF 1 and 2 and D&D 5e added a lot of stuff I want to import and things we want to change, so our main GM and I are focusing on that. It's interesting but I found out that I'm a lot more enthusiastic to homebrew in a system that I know fairly well, but which is a "closed" system, with no real new official stuff coming out. It gives me a complete framework and plenty of examples, but no risk of upcoming products contradicting what I want to change, or add, so it's somewhat liberating.

      Also Shadowrun. I have gripes with the new edition, but we have an 5e story with that on the reserve in case we want a change of pace from D&D.

      We're consensually skipping V5, so for now, I'd put WoD on a rest for a while. I love this settig and these games with all my wretched heart and they've added a lot to my life, but the current direction is just not for me and I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future.
      Last edited by PMárk; 03-10-2020, 04:50 PM.


      If nothing worked, then let's think!

      Comment


      • #4
        As I said: being in the first position in the first couple of years it's simple. Requiem too managed to do so.
        The real problem is selling after that. When the "next big thing" comes out and you are not shiny as before.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
          As I said: being in the first position in the first couple of years it's simple. Requiem too managed to do so.
          The real problem is selling after that. When the "next big thing" comes out and you are not shiny as before.
          Yes. Lots of people buy things for curiosity/impulse, etc. I bought the Mage the Awakening 1e Corebook twice. I decided I still like Ascension a lot better and sold them. I bought D&D 4e Essentials books and they met the same fate. All in all, I've spent more money on used D&D 3.5 books just the couple few months than I did on NWoD books during it's original run and I'm still filling in my woD 20th and Revised collection.

          Also, the Fall of London and Chicago by Night V5 books are among the first five best-selling titles on drivethrurpg right now. That's laudable. On the other hand, the V20 corebook is still on the list, at the 28th spot, not far behind many recently published titles and it managed to uphold a very good position over all of its run. The V5 corebook is 34th. The new starter pack 39. Admittedly, thatplatform is not the primary channel of distribution for V5, whil it is for the 20ths, but here it is. Also, W20 and M20 are also on the list, while the V5 Cam and Anarch books didn't make it.

          I don't want to crap on V5. I'm not a fan of it, by and large and that's common knowledge here. I still don't wish it to crash hard, or harbor any bad feelings toward the authors. Our visions of WoD just didn't meet and yes, I hope that sometimes in the future that will change with a new edition. Until then, I wish them all the best, but I'm not along for the ride.

          What I find funny, however, is how several people made boisterous claims about V5 selling like hot cakes and how it outdid V20, when it made into, the ICv2 charts and now, the silence is deafining.

          My honest guess? V5 had its 5 minutes in the spotlight, largely because of the recognition of the title and the sheer impact of VtM being back in stores. Old fans buying for nostalgia and a fresh start, new people buying for curiosity. It'll remain a moderately successfull rpg line under Modiphius. Then, probably, 5-6 years in the future, we'll se a new edition and time will tell how that would turn out. That it will be any kind of multimedia juggernaut as they envisioned, or reach the cultural impact of its forebear, is pretty unlikely, IMO. I won't be surprised if it'll be on the ICv2 chart now and then, especially when there's a derth of new titles and placeholder names, but I don't suspect it'll maintain a solid place on it.
          Last edited by PMárk; 03-11-2020, 03:13 PM.


          If nothing worked, then let's think!

          Comment


          • #6
            I can't believe Shadowrun 6e is up there lol

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Godforsaken View Post
              I can't believe Shadowrun 6e is up there lol
              Well, Shadowrun also did well on Drivethrurpg, most of the time under 5e too and the new edition got hyped quite a bit.

              Honestly, the Shadowrun community on reddit and other places tend to be exceedingly negative (if any V5 fans think not pro-V5 members are haters here, go take a look at those folks. ), but the the books seem to sell solidly, most of the time. SR books are usually bestsellers on drivethru and the game is frequent on the ICv2 list. There seems to be a significant crowd playing the game out there, or at least buying the books. It's just, Catalyst really neglects the IP (though again, 6e got a good ammount of hype).

              And lets be honest: lots of buys are impulse decisions. The SR 6e corebook looks cool, at first glance. The cover art is great and the title color scheme plays right into the synthwave resurgence. It's also less crunchy than 5e was.
              Last edited by PMárk; 03-12-2020, 11:46 AM.


              If nothing worked, then let's think!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
                As I said: being in the first position in the first couple of years it's simple. Requiem too managed to do so.
                The real problem is selling after that. When the "next big thing" comes out and you are not shiny as before.


                Icv2 for spring 2020...

                And Vampire Is nowhere to be seen...
                https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...es-spring-2020
                Last edited by Undead rabbit; 08-20-2020, 11:55 PM.

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                • #9
                  Well, D&D is by far the biggest RPG on the market, dwarfing everything else by a wide margin. So it's normal for sales for even the core book to be continuous and large.

                  Pathfinder and Shadowrun are very popular RPGs, among the top 10 easily, and both had new editions coming out in 2019, so obviously there will be a good deal of core book sales.

                  I'm actually surprised the Star Wars RPG is selling so well, many years after all three core books have released. Could be due to Star Wars being everywhere these days.

                  And holy s%@t ... I had no idea that a new Alien RPG got released last year! I'll need to check it out.

                  The new edition of Vampire came out in 2018, and the overwhelming majority of people would have bought it back then. I'm sure sales charts for 2018 would have shown it more prominently.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Note one very very important thing about WOD games compared to some others:

                    WOD games are really popular ... but CCP did it's damnedest to sink it. They only gave license to Onyx Path and did ZERO marketing and ZERO distribution support. As far as CCP was concerned, interest in the WOD IP died with their MMO project. They just didn't care at all and likely saw it as a god send when Paradox offered to buy it since CCP, unable to think of anything outside the EVE universe, considered it a wasted effort.

                    I really need to stress how close CCP came to killing the WOD IP. It was really bad. Onyx Path could do their best, but with no marketing and distro support, only the real die hards kept on buying new stuff, with everyone else bowing out given how grotesquely expensive high quality print on demand products are, especially for those living outside the U.S. I live in Canada and I bought the Blood and Smoke VTR corebook and it cost me well over a hundred bucks, much higher than the equivalent at my LFGS.

                    I think Paradox is doing a great job supporting the line now, but they are effectively starting from scratch. This is unlike games like Pathfinder and even Shadowrun which are still marketed and can be found in all gaming shops. Same with Star Wars which has one of the most recognizable IPs in the world and barely needs any marketing at all.
                    Last edited by KarlB; 08-21-2020, 03:28 PM.

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                    • #11
                      V5 is currently #105 On DrivethruRPG’s best selling titles. V20 released 9 years ago is 39th (even with only a premium hardcore print version available) and has never dropped out of the best selling titles that I’m aware of. Even Changeling the Dreaming 20th is higher than V5.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SavageGM View Post
                        V5 is currently #105 On DrivethruRPG’s best selling titles. V20 released 9 years ago is 39th (even with only a premium hardcore print version available) and has never dropped out of the best selling titles that I’m aware of. Even Changeling the Dreaming 20th is higher than V5.

                        Might have something to do with the fact that no one buys V5 off DTRPG given it has full retail support as well as being able to buy all V5 PDFs right off Modiphius' site. Why would you go through DTRPG when you can find better and cheaper elsewhere? DTRPG is for the niche print on demand market.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KarlB View Post


                          Might have something to do with the fact that no one buys V5 off DTRPG given it has full retail support as well as being able to buy all V5 PDFs right off Modiphius' site. Why would you go through DTRPG when you can find better and cheaper elsewhere? DTRPG is for the niche print on demand market.
                          Well it’s the same price on DrivethruRPG as Modiphius for the pdf and some people like their collection in one spot. Granted if they offered a POD option on Drivethru it may do better on that site than it currently is.

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                          • #14
                            Checking today it appears that they have the hardcover BW V20 back up for purchase. So a correction to my previous statement.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Vampire the Masquerade of any edition has always been a niche product, reaching the peek of its popularity in the 90's at which point it briefly grazed mainstream after which it returned to its traditional place as a cult followed product. V5 was never really going to be able to compete with other more mainstream RPG's like D&D & Pathfinder or franchises like Star Wars or Shadowrun.

                              From where I'm standing V5 revitalized what was effectively a deader then dead franchise that was circling the drain of the great dark void of obscurity and though V5 might not (and probably won't) reach the heights of its predecessor, until recently the conversation wasn't about how popular, fun or how often played Vampire the Masquerade was, but whether or not the franchise would survive at all.

                              Besides, I don't know how anyone else on the forums has experienced the game, but to my gaming group at this stage there are only two games in the world, Vampire 5th edition, and everything else. We are on our second chronicle (the first one ran for over a year) and my players are describing it as the single greatest RPG experience of their lives and I attribute it entirely to this edition of the game that captured the world of darkness with near perfection.

                              If we could just get a revised core rulebook that makes the book itself easier to reference at the table, as far as I'm concerned its the perfect game and I don't need ICV2 to confirm that. In fact, I would say that because it lists D&D 5e, Pathfinder and Shadowrun 6e are the three "best selling ....aka best games", I'm a 100% certain I have no respect for peoples preferences because all three of those games are basically miniature games in disguise, if those where the only three games left in the world to play, I think I rather quit the RPG hobby entirely and just commit to playing miniature war games, they are atrocious caricatures of what role-playing games should be not worth the paper they were printed on.

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