Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

More Female Antediluvians

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • False Epiphany
    started a topic More Female Antediluvians

    More Female Antediluvians

    So, this is one of the '90s elements of the game that hasn't aged well.

    Women: Arikel, Ennoia (2)
    Sources Disagree: Troile (1)
    Men: Absimiliard, Augustus, Cappadocius, Haqim, [Lasombra], Malkav, Saulot, Set, Tremere, [Tzimisce], [Ventrue], Zapathasura (12)

    Yeah. Almost all of the Antes are guys, and the only consistently female ones are the beauty-fixated ultimate seductress and the Ante who's closest to being "one with nature." That feels a little problematic today.

    The upside is that it's easily fixable. Gender means less to the Antes than it does to RPG consumers, but plenty of Kindred scholars might still have gotten the Antes' genders wrong due to incomplete scholarship and/or conscious and unconscious biases. I actually liked how accounts of Troile's gender are so contradictory and treat that as canon in my games. Different Brujah regard their founder as male or female, depending on who one talks to.

    But what's the real truth, so far as the Antes' genders? Well, some thoughts:

    Women: Arikel, Ennoia, [Lasombra], Malkav, Troile, [Tzimisce], Zapathasura (7)
    Men: Absimiliard, Augustus, Cappadocius, Haqim, Saulot, Set, Tremere, [Ventrue] (8)

    Lasombra being female makes a nice contrast to Ventrue, who feels all but mandated to stay male.

    Malkav works well as a woman. Plenty of "mad seer" tropes associated with female characters.

    If Yorak could actually be female deep down, why not her sire too?

    Zapathasura because the Ante seems like s/he could work just as well as either gender.

    Absimiliard being a man obsessed with his lost beauty was a refreshing change of pace for the '90s. The others strike me as having a more patriarchal than matriarchal vibe, but I could see some of them being women too. Which Antes do people think work best with a gender swap?

  • Penelope
    replied
    FearGrounds that’s a great idea!

    Leave a comment:


  • FearGrounds
    replied
    Originally posted by Penelope View Post
    FearGrounds good point. Of course, that’s just water. In order to weep tears of Vitae, it would have to have some connection to the Kindred (the book is ambiguous about whether the tears are really Zillah’s, but they’re definitely Vitae).
    I like to think of it, as being a cocoon of stone wrapped around Zillah. It protects her from the dangers of time and sunlight, but also holds her prisoner. Occasionally the power of her blood is able to seep out of the stone, yet she remains locked in place. JUST MY THOUGHTS

    Leave a comment:


  • Trollroot
    replied
    Someone, at some point, must have tried to embrace with them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Penelope
    replied
    FearGrounds good point. Of course, that’s just water. In order to weep tears of Vitae, it would have to have some connection to the Kindred (the book is ambiguous about whether the tears are really Zillah’s, but they’re definitely Vitae).

    Leave a comment:


  • FearGrounds
    replied


    A fairly common thing to see, in my area at least, is cold stonework "weeping" as it heats up. The condensation in and on the surface looks like tears all over the stone, be it a statue, headstone, or even a building. The most common of course, being "weeping" statues in various cemeteries.

    Story wise, I feel it would be better for it to be a statue with a face. In reality, it could be anything comprised of solid stone(Column,Menhir,Statue,etc...)

    Leave a comment:


  • Penelope
    replied
    Matt the Bruins fan oh. I always thought it was a statue of Zillah as a literal beautiful maiden, the way she was before Caine Embraced her.

    Wait a minute though

    It specifically says the statue weeps tears of Vitae. In order to weep tears it has to at least have a face...

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt the Bruins fan
    replied
    IIRC, it's not actually a statue, just a standing stone. The Black Hand in the know believe it's Zillah, but I think that's taken on faith rather than any tangible indication of whom or what the stone used to be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Penelope
    replied
    Taggie the statue of Zillah is in Caine’s Chosen: the Black Hand. The statue weeps tears of Zillah’s Vitae which are used to initiate members of the Sabbat Hand.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kael03
    replied
    Originally posted by Taggie View Post
    An interesting question is, what makes people think the 2nd gen stayed dead...or that their was only 3 of them
    For the first question - in the BJD Enoch, at least, is still alive in a couple of scenarios. Meaning his survival is canon. There's also a statue of Zillah that supposedly bleeds vitae somewhere (I forget off hand). And there's also an ancient vampire whose vitae has traits held common to the clans believed to be descended from Irad.

    For the second, the Toreador have a tale that before Enoch Caine embraced a pair of lovers that then committed suicide because they couldn't have children.

    As for just having 13 3rd gens, that's only the case of those known to have survived the flood. There were more that didn't get the chance to sire, either through accidents or intentional killings. Even Caine being the only 1st gen is suspect, as there is an obscured belief that he wasn't THE first vampire, but A first vampire.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Originally posted by Penelope View Post
    TheCountAlucard does he have a Tamagotchi lol? 😊
    Nope, he wouldn’t especially get a toy that makes noise out of nowhere and follows its own schedule like that. Either he’d have to mute it so it doesn’t go off on its own when he’s sneaking around, or leave it at home; either way, it would end up starved or half-starved and surrounded by those little digital turds.

    Originally posted by Penelope View Post
    Yay!!! My 1000th post!
    Congrats.

    Leave a comment:


  • Penelope
    replied
    TheCountAlucard does he have a Tamagotchi lol? 😊

    Yay!!! My 1000th post!

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCountAlucard
    replied
    Originally posted by NotEmpathic View Post
    To an Antidiluvian[sic] their gender would be approximately as important as their eye colour ie basically meaningless beyond trivia
    To an Antediluvian, their gender would be approximately as important as they decide it is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Taggie
    replied
    An interesting question is, what makes people think the 2nd gen stayed dead...or that their was only 3 of them, or indeed any of the 1_3_13 pattern holds. The cthonic gods of blood wait, and some of them by now may be even more alien than that.
    Last edited by Taggie; 04-17-2020, 06:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • NotEmpathic
    replied
    To an Antidiluvian their gender would be approximately as important as their eye colour ie basically meaningless beyond trivia

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X