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Baronies of Avalon

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  • Andreas Rayne
    started a topic Baronies of Avalon

    Baronies of Avalon

    As I've mentioned before, I'm in the middle of running a Dark Ages game set in York during the Anarchy.
    The plan has always been to advance the date at certain intervals and I'm close to doing so now.
    I'm not adhering 100% to canon, but close.
    Trouble is there is one piece of information I can't seem find.
    How long did the Baronies of Avalon retain the structure presented in Dark Ages?
    Were regional princes refered to as Barons, requiring sweared fealty to Mithras right up to the point where Monty Coven sank those lateral incisors in?
    Or did things start to loosen up once Anne took Regency, with a little more wiggle room in territorial praxis and the title Prince coming back into vogue?

  • No One of Consequence
    replied
    I always sort of presumed that the Baronies took their biggest hit during the Industrial Revolution, with a number of cities suddenly growing a lot larger and their Princes being technically considered Barons but only paying a certain level of lip service to London's rule.

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  • JezMiller
    replied
    In the first edition of the World of Darkness, way back in 1991, they spoke of the English domains as "Fiefs" - London, Birmingham, Manchester/Liverpool, Edinburgh, Glasgow, York, Ulster, Severn, Connachta, and Winchester.

    My take on it is that Mithras ruled an essential feudal "empire" in the Dark Ages period. The rulers of the Fiefs called themselves "Barons" rather than "Princes" lest they offend him. In the Middle Ages, an agreement called the "Rose Treaty" limited Mithras' notional, if perhaps not actual, power

    The Black Death, Inquisition, and rise of the Camarilla weakened Mithras' grip slightly and the Edinburgh Toreador tried to assert themselves against him. The 1693 Treaty of Durham marked the end of that attempt.

    The Fiefs' borders shifted in response to increased urbanisation and population growth in the 19th century. The title "Prince" first came into vogue during Mithras' long absence in the 19th century and became the norm after Lady Anne took over in 1941. London remains primus inter pares among the Fiefs, not least because of its huge population size and wealth - Anne in Fall of London is styled "Prince of London and the British Isles" at one point - but Anne doesn't inspire the fear that Mithras did and the Fiefs become functionally independent under the Camarilla's aegis.

    So the Baronies don't die, they just mutate and slowly become more independent.

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  • Malkira
    replied
    Information for the Baronies of Avalon can be a little mixed after the dark ages.
    In Victorian Age Vampire they mention a Prince of Manchester. In the V20 Anarchs book modern(ish) Manchester and Liverpool have merged into a sort of UK Anarch Free Fief.
    In the Victorian Age fiction there is Tremere activity in County Durham somewhere.
    And of course there is the newer detail on Edinburgh where it was a Toreador powerhouse until V5 had the Cult of Mithras take over with a Hecata Prince.
    As a homebrew it might be worth looking at the major UK metropolitan areas and adding fiefs there?

    Leave a comment:


  • Damian May
    replied
    This is slightly tangential but may be of use:

    https://www.storytellersvault.com/pr...&filters=45622

    Leave a comment:


  • omenseer
    replied
    For a second I thought this was called Bronies of Avalon.

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  • Andreas Rayne
    replied
    Originally posted by LucyRuthven View Post
    Lady Anne was Embraced in 17th century and the Monty Coven diablerie on Mithras was a late 20th century thing... How could these get involved in a DA game if you do not change the canon time line dramatically
    Sorry. Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly.
    The game I'm running started in the 12th century, but it will periodically jump in time until we reach the late 90's.
    I'm hoping to portray the power structures in play within the British Isles as accurately as possible thoughout the centuries.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andreas Rayne
    replied
    Originally posted by Gryffon15 View Post
    Just a disclaimer, I'm doing this from memory so please forgive any errors:

    •To the best of my knowledge, the Baronies of Avalon loosely retained their structure into the period of the late 15th-early 16th century and even afterwards the hierarchy of powers remained somewhat the same. Mithras was the vampiric King of Britain and while he eventually made an alliance of ease with the Camarilla, his rules and ways of power remained predominantly set into place within Britain with lip service paid to the customs and traditions of the Camarilla as necessary.

    •Amongst the Baronies, 'Baron' most likely reminded a common honorific although I imagine using it before outsiders would have been impolitic. However as the supreme kindred of Britain, I do imagine that all barons were still answering to Mithras.

    •Mithras kept the systems of the Baronies of Avalon alive by sheer force of will, raw power, and institutional inertia. The elders are probably too stuck in their ways to overly change, but I wouldn't be surprised if under Anne's regency there weren't more Camarilla assimilationist reforms.
    Just want to say thank you very much for your thoughts.
    As far as I'm aware we've never been given an answer as to whether or when 'princes' of cities within the Baronies of Avalon started using that term. I can see them doing so once Mithras was off the board (depending on which edition's canon you're using).
    I feel that once Mithras was out of the picture, either through torpor or actual final death, the Barons would start to behave and rule more in line with the Camarilla status quo, honorifics and all.
    I was hoping the Fall of London would clear this up. Unfortunately as far as I've read, it doesn't, bar a mention of a push for more independence.
    I think I'm going to go with your line of though; that as soon as Anne became the defacto authority the Baronies started to look far more Camarilla than previously.

    Leave a comment:


  • LucyRuthven
    replied
    Lady Anne was Embraced in 17th century and the Monty Coven diablerie on Mithras was a late 20th century thing... How could these get involved in a DA game if you do not change the canon time line dramatically

    Leave a comment:


  • Gryffon15
    replied
    Just a disclaimer, I'm doing this from memory so please forgive any errors:

    •To the best of my knowledge, the Baronies of Avalon loosely retained their structure into the period of the late 15th-early 16th century and even afterwards the hierarchy of powers remained somewhat the same. Mithras was the vampiric King of Britain and while he eventually made an alliance of ease with the Camarilla, his rules and ways of power remained predominantly set into place within Britain with lip service paid to the customs and traditions of the Camarilla as necessary.

    •Amongst the Baronies, 'Baron' most likely reminded a common honorific although I imagine using it before outsiders would have been impolitic. However as the supreme kindred of Britain, I do imagine that all barons were still answering to Mithras.

    •Mithras kept the systems of the Baronies of Avalon alive by sheer force of will, raw power, and institutional inertia. The elders are probably too stuck in their ways to overly change, but I wouldn't be surprised if under Anne's regency there weren't more Camarilla assimilationist reforms.

    Leave a comment:

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