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Do Kindred/Cainites feel pain?

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  • Do Kindred/Cainites feel pain?

    Thanks 😊. Just wondering.


    The die is cast.

    Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

  • #2
    As far as I understand, yes. It just takes a lot more.

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    • #3
      Yes. Though one of the occasionally presented side effects of Fortitude is that there's a reduction in feeling pain, which can have a dehumanizing effect.

      (I remember someone back in the day pointing out that, in revised edition, a vampire with Fortitude of around 4 or 5 could probably get hit in the face with a baseball bat and not even flinch. Which is really scary to the person with the bat, and probably a bit disturbing to the vampire if she stops to reflect on it.)


      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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      • #4
        I have always run it that Vampires without the benefit of Fortitude feel pain, even an extreme amount of it. What they don't feel is shock and trauma. A Vampire that gets shot feels the wound, but they don't fear for their lives, and don't get a sudden surge of adrenaline as their fight or flight instincts kick in. It's just a sensation that let's them know they are injured. Its not that they don't feel pain, it just that pain isn't a big deal. Only fire and sunlight trigger the familiar distress of pain, and do so at a heightened level.


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        • #5
          Yes unless You Cross the Shadow Curtain, then Pain Feels You.


          It is a time for great deeds!

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          • #6
            Do you think Baba Yaga’s really dead?


            The die is cast.

            Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Penelope View Post
              Do you think Baba Yaga’s really dead?
              Canon wise I believe she died but had plans to continue her legacy past her death, even though it was a lame stupid death.

              In my headcanon she prepared for Vasilissa and activated a ritual as Vasilissa entered her that consumed both their souls transmuting them into a single new Faery soul that starts as an innocent child and may or may not become a hideous crone when it ages. Basically she gave herself a chance out her living nightmare and her fate may or may not be inevitable.


              It is a time for great deeds!

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              • #8
                I'd think they'd develop a bit of tolerance to pain just because it would be shorter lived for them. They jump out of a third story window, land on concrete, break their legs, but are fully healed in seconds. The pain would be pretty extreme, but short lived and worth the risk if they needed to get away. A mortal wouldn't do it just because their legs would be permanently messed up and they'd be in pain for months by in game healing standards and probably for the rest of their life in the real world. The fact that permanent physical damage isn't as much of a threat to them would probably make them less pain averse as well.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DrHappyAngry View Post
                  I'd think they'd develop a bit of tolerance to pain just because it would be shorter lived for them. They jump out of a third story window, land on concrete, break their legs, but are fully healed in seconds. The pain would be pretty extreme, but short lived and worth the risk if they needed to get away. A mortal wouldn't do it just because their legs would be permanently messed up and they'd be in pain for months by in game healing standards and probably for the rest of their life in the real world. The fact that permanent physical damage isn't as much of a threat to them would probably make them less pain averse as well.
                  Yup pretty much this, they are hesitant with Fire and Sunlight could that could easily kill them or scar them. But if they steele themselves they can do intentionally painful things.

                  There is even a thaumaturgy ritual where you burn your hand to ash with a candle and it costs one dot of Willpower along with the damage because its so intense to willingly invoke such pain and trauma.


                  It is a time for great deeds!

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                  • #10
                    There’s a malkavian merit of pain tolerance. That numbs them to things. So yes, kindred normally feel pain. Also keep in mind an auspex user enhancing their tactile senses would be hurt more (if for some reason they are forced into this state)

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                    • #11
                      Wound penalties would be circumstantial, rather list of levels, if vampires didn't feel pain. At the same time, a vampire isn't going to bleed-out, they can regenerate body parts, and a lot of their organs are now useless. Kicking a vampire in the balls would be no different from kicking them anywhere else. I believe the beast would optimise the vampire's pain sense, just as it eats away at most body-fat with strategic considerations for sex-appeal. Especially given that vampires in frenzy don't have wound penalties. Really, I think vampires feel pain where it's useful. It's not so generous that being staked voluntarily or removing your eyes for a ritual is painless, but the pain is not enough to be mentally traumatized by it.

                      Fortitude is really just numbing you to damage. That baseball bat hitting you in the face is putting a whole lot less force into you, thanks to fortitude. It doesn't actually do anything for wounds that exist (though I suspect, if your structure was comprimised, say your leg bones were shattered, fortitude/potence would help keep the structure up and help you walk)



                      V5 is not VTM

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                      • #12
                        I can see Fortitude having different effects depending on the particular vampire. In some cases it may be effectively bulletproof skin; in others, the sword cuts through the vampire's torso as normal but it's not particularly bothered by the wound.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
                          I can see Fortitude having different effects depending on the particular vampire. In some cases it may be effectively bulletproof skin; in others, the sword cuts through the vampire's torso as normal but it's not particularly bothered by the wound.
                          Nope.
                          What you described is actually the case for DAV20, but I think it's wrong and the result of new authors. Before that book, disciplines from 1-5 were divinely ordained, immutable, linear powers for which to cultivate set down by Caine/God/Lilith. There was no alternative powers, you would always learn Dominate in a strict progression from 1-5, you would learn chimestry the same way, you would always have the same hieghtened senses as someone else with that discipline and your mask of a thousand faces would work the same way as everyone elses mask of a thousand faces, the same spirit's touch, the same potence. Protean literally means "frequently changing", but even then you'd need a merit to change the colour of your Eyes of the Beast.

                          My deduction: A vampire with fortitude simply acts as if less force has been imparted on them (This partially explains all the combo disciplines that keep you standing when It'd be more beneficial to roll with the punches) You're basically flouting F=MA: A blow loses it's momentum, a bullet seems smaller, a fire isn't as hot, acid isn't as reactive. (potence, obviously, works along the same lines, for action movie physics; you can put your fist through a wall without worrying about recoil). The Vampire isn't actually any tougher, they don't gain the ability to ignore wounds; it's just that everything else is so much weaker.


                          A boxing match between a potence master and an equally matched fortitude master looks the same as a boxing match of two cainites without either.
                          Last edited by MyWifeIsScary; 03-29-2020, 02:07 PM.


                          V5 is not VTM

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                          • #14
                            I'm not talking about different mechanics, I'm talking about variations in what the superficial effect of those extra soak dice is on the body of the vampire in question. And there are a number of disciplines that can have different mechanics at levels 1-5; witness the multiple tracks of Obeah/Valeran, clan-based differences in how Animalism 3 is applied, or how Gangrel get more versatility from Protean 4 than other clans.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post

                              A boxing match between a potence master and an equally matched fortitude master looks the same as a boxing match of two cainites without either.
                              Bahaha. Fortitude vamp would get his head punched clean off his neck, at least going by how Fort works in any game i've ever played in

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