Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

[V5] The Sabbat in V5

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Chris24601 View Post
    Honorable Accord gets in the way of the Sabbat being a “death cult” (they made sure to highlight that twice in the table of contents), because that’s what the V5 developers have decided the Sabbat needs to be.
    No it doesn't. You need the cultist true believers to drive the others off the cliff. The Honorable Accorders are absolutely the biggest Kool Aid drinkers.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

      No it doesn't. You need the cultist true believers to drive the others off the cliff. The Honorable Accorders are absolutely the biggest Kool Aid drinkers.
      We shall see but it's under Forsaken Paths...which by title at least is not a good look, we also have to consider the state of Path of Caine in the preview, altered almost beyond recognition to go from Vampire archeologist and theological scholarly crusader to mindless blood glutton

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Taggie View Post

        We shall see but it's under Forsaken Paths...which by title at least is not a good look, we also have to consider the state of Path of Caine in the preview, altered almost beyond recognition to go from Vampire archeologist and theological scholarly crusader to mindless blood glutton
        This is true and if it is the change they went for, I would find it a really dumb decision. I have my own issues with V5 after all. One of the biggest being the Sabbat weren't a corebook.

        Edit:

        Also, I am glad that Paths are 100% a part of the Sabbat even if some seem to have been hit.
        Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-18-2021, 05:30 PM.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

          This is true and if it is the change they went for, I would find it a really dumb decision. I have my own issues with V5 after all. One of the biggest being the Sabbat weren't a corebook.

          Edit:

          Also, I am glad that Paths are 100% a part of the Sabbat even if some seem to have been hit.
          We thought The Sabbat would be default playable, they aren't, you can houserule it but how much work that actually takes we don't know, after that decision, will any level of flanderisation be a shock?

          Comment


          • One thing I will say for the lineup is it looks like it's actually going to provide actual useful information for the sect and games this puts it a mile above the Anarch book which was mostly filler.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Taggie View Post

              We thought The Sabbat would be default playable, they aren't, you can houserule it but how much work that actually takes we don't know, after that decision, will any level of flanderisation be a shock?
              Yeah, I believe that's a mistake too.

              I've been pretty consistent in my disappointment with the Sabbat's handling.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                Yeah, I believe that's a mistake too.

                I've been pretty consistent in my disappointment with the Sabbat's handling.
                It's definatly one of the odder design choices of V5, has their ever been any specific statement as to why they did that considering the sects popularity with the customers?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post

                  It's definatly one of the odder design choices of V5, has their ever been any specific statement as to why they did that considering the sects popularity with the customers?
                  This is me going from memory, but iirc Justin mentioned something about millennials not wanting to play outright villains or similar, but again that is from memory, so .. also they wanted to focus on humanity...which they did by gutting the morality system and subcontracting it out to touchstones, a concept I find viscerally repugnant at best
                  Last edited by Taggie; 09-18-2021, 06:57 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Taggie View Post

                    This is me going from memory, but iirc Justin mentioned something about millennials not wanting to play outright villains or similar, but again that is from memory, so .. also they wanted to focus on humanity...which they did by gutting the morality system and subcontracting it out to touchstones, a concept I find viscerally repugnant at best
                    Yes, Touchstones definitely need to be updated. They should primarily be about who vampires love, not who vampires abuse, and an optional bonus not a integral part of their Humanity.

                    Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post

                    It's definatly one of the odder design choices of V5, has their ever been any specific statement as to why they did that considering the sects popularity with the customers?
                    If I had to guess, I believed they felt the Sabbat had overwhelmed the game setting in Revised. They'd severely impacted the Anarch vs. Camarilla struggle and made it seem like the primary conflict was Sabbat vs. Camarilla instead.

                    Since they seemed to be marketing to a more "adult" audience, they also feared that depicting the Sabbat as player characters would get the same sort of freakout that pedophile Ventrue and Nazi Brujah did.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                      Yes, Touchstones definitely need to be updated. They should primarily be about who vampires love, not who vampires abuse, and an optional bonus not a integral part of their Humanity.
                      Vampires caring about humans I don't care about, Vampires not having self control, willpower and identity without having 3 special ones is ick, those concepts are so tightly bound to mental health that having them have to be external sickens me.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Taggie View Post

                        Vampires caring about humans I don't care about, Vampires not having self control, willpower and identity without having 3 special ones is ick, those concepts are so tightly bound to mental health that having them have to be external sickens me.
                        Yeah, it only works as an optional bonus. Like, say, a Background that helps you keep your Humanity. It doens't make sense as a necessity.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                          Yeah, it only works as an optional bonus. Like, say, a Background that helps you keep your Humanity. It doens't make sense as a necessity.

                          yeah, I like the idea that maybe you need a Touchstone to raise Humanity
                          even to get a new or lost Conviction
                          But be a necessity to have any Conviction at all I thought as always a bit of a forced situation. I mean, most players I had put a name and two words for the Touchstone, and never even remembered the name of the fella in the entire game. One player really used the Touchstone and made it an integral part of her character, but it was the exception unfortunately. So yeah, I think it should be a path you have to take for betterment, not a necessity for maintainment. I even consider in my Dark Ages game that each PC has One "free" Conviction. Only if he/she really breaks it dramatically would he/she lose it, like making the resolve towards that Conviction being the Touchstone itself, so breaking your rules hurt the Touchstone, and being total blasphemous or heretical against it is killing it. Either way I'm making an organic conversion system for taking Paths, probably not as good as Long Road Out of Hell, but it works better for me.

                          either way I'm pretty excited from the Table of Content
                          also, I want to know what this Civil War in Brazil is; after all, Gratiano was in Rio de Janeiro, the only (supposedly) city where Sabbat and Camarilla lived peacefully (as much as it can at least); so there might be going some weird stuff, or it might be something completely different.


                          Strange... When coincidence seems too convenient, I prefer to call it fate.

                          -Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain d=

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Taggie View Post

                            This is me going from memory, but iirc Justin mentioned something about millennials not wanting to play outright villains or similar, but again that is from memory, so .. also they wanted to focus on humanity...which they did by gutting the morality system and subcontracting it out to touchstones, a concept I find viscerally repugnant at best
                            Vampires are villains as a rule they just tend to be anti villains, pretty much any vampire over a 100 is going to have bodies on them plus they made the Carmarilla and the Anarchs way nastier. If anything the touchstone system seemed far less respectful of humanity than the humanity mechanic.


                            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post


                            If I had to guess, I believed they felt the Sabbat had overwhelmed the game setting in Revised. They'd severely impacted the Anarch vs. Camarilla struggle and made it seem like the primary conflict was Sabbat vs. Camarilla instead.

                            Since they seemed to be marketing to a more "adult" audience, they also feared that depicting the Sabbat as player characters would get the same sort of freakout that pedophile Ventrue and Nazi Brujah did.

                            I got the idea of back to basics but the Sabbat vs Carmarilla had been the primary angle for at least 22 years by then with 3rd ed for fairly organic story telling reasons. I think the point V5 really ran into trouble was the Anarch book which didn't really give the the sect the gravitas and internal organization needed to be a major sect especially when compared to their primary rivals. If you're going to play big boy sect you need big boy concepts, which is frustrating because I liked the Anarchs previously. By contrast 3rd ed guide to the Sabbat and it's mage counterpart guide to technocracy are probably two of the best books white wolf ever wrote.

                            That's pretty amusing since claims of maturity are usually an indication of extreme immaturity. I had my 4 year old nephew recently explain to me how he doesnt like thomas the tank engine anymore because he likes the Avengers which is for grown ups. This is roughly 30 minutes after he asked me to escort him upstairs for a wee because he's worried about monsters getting him. Css lewis had a great quote about this

                            “Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Taggie View Post

                              This is me going from memory, but iirc Justin mentioned something about millennials not wanting to play outright villains or similar, but again that is from memory, so .. also they wanted to focus on humanity...which they did by gutting the morality system and subcontracting it out to touchstones, a concept I find viscerally repugnant at best
                              Cue william defoe

                              I'm something of a millenial myself, and I can say with confidence that... it's total horseshit and we love playing villains. Most of the people I played with, who were my age, vastly prefered the Sabbat. (even going with the "Sabbat are the good guys!" shtick). The idea that we're all sheltered, entitled safe space loving privelledge checkers is really something blown up by a few insecure boomers and... the incels. It's a little sad that mainstream thought can be so easily influenced by such narratives.

                              I suppose the Camarilla would've gone to shit for this too.


                              Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
                              There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                                Cue william defoe

                                I'm something of a millenial myself, and I can say with confidence that... it's total horseshit and we love playing villains. Most of the people I played with, who were my age, vastly prefered the Sabbat. (even going with the "Sabbat are the good guys!" shtick). The idea that we're all sheltered, entitled safe space loving privelledge checkers is really something blown up by a few insecure boomers and... the incels. It's a little sad that mainstream thought can be so easily influenced by such narratives.

                                I suppose the Camarilla would've gone to shit for this too.
                                Internet nerd culture produces a caricature of irl politics. A lot of the dialogue online doesnt really integrate with the IRL diversity of world views or on occasion, reality. Millenials arnt really well represented by some 20-45 year old man-child rpgnet member who doom scrolls twitter for his political takes anymore than some hateful grognard who dislikes anything after 1998 represent genx';s like myself. As I've mentioned before V5 feels like a very niche perspective on american politics circa 2018. Which is unfortunate since it not only ages it but also makes it unrelatable but also violently jars with the increased emphasis on your being a dangerous monster. Frankly I'd just play This Signal kills fascists which has simular issues but it's explicitly designed with this in mind and has some factional variety if I wanted to explore Left wing anxieties (which I get to play irl anyway since I'm a socially active hard line winger-trust me kids irl protests are way more fun than Anarch rp) for VTM I'm here for differant reasons.
                                Last edited by Ragged Robin; 09-19-2021, 09:31 AM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X