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[V5] The Sabbat in V5

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  • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
    I mean, that's literally what the Sabbat is.
    Oh, despite not liking the way the Sabbat does that, it's not what I meant.

    Like, it is just that there was no need to make super evil versions of the clans to have super evil members of those clans. It is what I mean by faux-variety, the super evilness doesn't really require alternative write-ups for the clans. But making them antitribu lets you stretch description and give the impression of an 'almost other clan' with little effort.

    It is the same thing the other way around. There is no need for Lasombra and Tzimisce outside the Sabbat to be called antitribu, but it is cooler and makes faux-variety. All that considering that the clans became tighter later, so by current metaplot the antitribu makes sense, as much as I still think it's silly.


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    • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
      My opinion so far?

      It looks much-much better than THE ANARCH book and probably THE CAMARILLA book too but I also would say those weren't high bars to pass. My love of V5 is mostly due to the Onyx Path publishing books. I think the Paths coming back is important and I like what I've seen so far.

      However, Thin Bloods in the Sabbat is ridiculous.

      I think that I might end up using this for player character Sabbat, though, even if the book doesn't allow it. I did the same thing for THE BOOK OF MADNESS and my infernalist PCs.
      Thin Bloods kind of make sense, mass embrace (how that will be possible now is an open question) by 12th and 13th gen Vamps would have a thin blood hit rate, and the view is probably 'get.strong or die'. As to Sabbat being the most evil... maybe, I'd have put Baali further down that road, but it's a close run thing, the Sabbat was interesting with it and made sense, now I have no hope that they will be anything more than chainsaw massacre expies and pseudo 28Days Later zombies....

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      • Originally posted by Taggie View Post

        Thin Bloods kind of make sense, mass embrace (how that will be possible now is an open question) by 12th and 13th gen Vamps would have a thin blood hit rate, and the view is probably 'get.strong or die'. As to Sabbat being the most evil... maybe, I'd have put Baali further down that road, but it's a close run thing, the Sabbat was interesting with it and made sense, now I have no hope that they will be anything more than chainsaw massacre expies and pseudo 28Days Later zombies....
        Eh, I think you were overly harsh on the Path of Caine. While it was overly focused on diablerie, it always was the Path of Blood lite.

        I am more surprised the Path of the Beast is out than anything else as you'd think they'd be all down with the Near Dark Texas Chainsaw Massacre Sabbat.

        Death and Soul is also bound to still be scholarly.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

          Eh, I think you were overly harsh on the Path of Caine. While it was overly focused on diablerie, it always was the Path of Blood lite.

          I am more surprised the Path of the Beast is out than anything else as you'd think they'd be all down with the Near Dark Texas Chainsaw Massacre Sabbat.

          Death and Soul is also bound to still be scholarly.
          My problem.was that it went from Diablerie as a goal to pursue, to Diablerie and btw any blood with resonance is everything, their is nothing else, not scholarship, not sect or pack loyalty, nothing.

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          • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post



            I am more surprised the Path of the Beast is out than anything else as you'd think they'd be all down with the Near Dark Texas Chainsaw Massacre Sabbat.

            Wait, what? Are you saying there won't be a version of Feral Heart in this edition?

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            • Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post

              Wait, what? Are you saying there won't be a version of Feral Heart in this edition?
              It was listed among the Forsaken Paths in the index that guy provided.

              http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...64#post1460264


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • Okay, I am well and truly done with this edition. That killed the last little bit of enthusiasm I had for it. Just snuffed it right out like stepping on a cigarette.

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                • If you don't enjoy it, then you shouldn't hurt yourself trying.

                  However, I am going to wait and read the book first and see what it's like. Justin Achilli is one of my favorite V:TM writers.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                  • Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post
                    Okay, I am well and truly done with this edition. That killed the last little bit of enthusiasm I had for it. Just snuffed it right out like stepping on a cigarette.
                    I'm mostly sticking with v20/Revised rules while incorporated some of the better v5 mechanics. I've re written the fluff developments to make them more cohesive and internally consistent, for example I've downplayed lasombra defection and Hecata unity. Otherwise I'm chalking this down to another 4th ed d&d and waiting coarse corrections through feedback. Mostly I'm just waiting on offers and sales for book purchases after wasting £35 on anarchs, once bitten as they say....


                    I am however filled with absolute dread for the next editions of werewolf and mage.
                    Last edited by Ragged Robin; 09-22-2021, 05:36 AM.

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                    • Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post

                      I'm mostly sticking with v20/Revised rules while incorporated some of the better v5 mechanics. I've re written the fluff developments to make them more cohesive and internally consistent, for example I've downplayed lasombra defection and Hecata unity. Otherwise I'm chalking this down to another 4th ed d&d and waiting coarse corrections through feedback. Mostly I'm just waiting on offers and sales for book purchases after wasting £35 on anarchs, once bitten as they say....

                      I am however filled with absolute dread for the next editions of werewolf and mage.
                      I think unlike 4th Edition that V5 has produced some utterly amazing products in Chicago by Night and Cults of the Blood Gods, though.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                      • Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post
                        I am however filled with absolute dread for the next editions of werewolf and mage.
                        At this point I'm more curious than interested. Like, I'm really, really curious about what they'll do, yet I'm just sticking to X20 rules wise, with some CoD adaptations for rules.

                        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                        I think unlike 4th Edition that V5 has produced some utterly amazing products in Chicago by Night and Cults of the Blood Gods, though.
                        But contrary to popular belief 4th Edition did had some good material. Especially the idea of making Save or Sucks into gradual processes with the first stage tacking hold without roll was something I liked a lot and adapted to my 3.5 games.


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                        • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                          I think unlike 4th Edition that V5 has produced some utterly amazing products in Chicago by Night and Cults of the Blood Gods, though.
                          4E had some gems in it too. It’s DMGs were considered some of the best ever in terms of practical advice (so much so that much of it was lifted whole cloth into the 5e DMG), and 4E Dark Sun, Heroes of the Feywild and the Nentir Vale Monster Vault were considered amazing as well.

                          But those amazing supplements don’t change the fact that 4E managed to alienate enough of D&D’s playerbase without bringing in enough new players that a retroclone of its previous edition managed to unseat D&D as the number one RPG in the industry.

                          Take from that what you will, but I’ll observe that a still readily available and third-party supported (via the Storyteller’s Vault) V20 is basically the release valve for those unhappy with V5’s direction in the same way that Pathfinder was for 4E.

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                          • We'll see.

                            I admit my skepticism is tremendous as I am *ALSO* a huge Star Trek fan and there is a very large contingent of people who have the belief that Nu Trek's releases aren't successes.

                            I think V5 is here to stay for at least a full run and has expanded many markets.

                            I am also not so deluded as to not know it has gone through multiple controversies.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                            • To return to the Sabbat proper, I think that the insistence that the Paths are divergent from Humanity as a whole have hurt their chance of being playable somewhat. It makes it easier to say that they are absolute monster, basically one step away from demon or wighs... but it's not really the case for me.

                              When i read the Paths, all those years ago, they never stuck me as distinct from Humanity so much as a narrowing of it. To me it was always the idea that you sacrifice a lot of the Man to the Beast in one go, but what you keep, you strengthen and fortify.

                              I mean..; Path of Honorable Accord ? Of the Beasts ? Even the Cathars (despite the terrible misnomer of that path compared to the Good Chirstian's real faith) ? They would fit perfectly well with some peoples. Very human peoples. Paths aren't so much a separation from Humanity than a partial abdication to not lose everything in that approach.

                              Of course, it'd mean that Sabbat Vampires wouldn't be able to do whatever they want and totally ignore humanity; Paths shouldn't allow one to sidestep entirely the Man, even the Path of Beast. Forbidden a Pather from ever achieving Golconda or returning to Humanity would already be a huge price to pay, for instance.

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                              • Roads were cooler.

                                There's nothing inhuman about inhumanity. We're fragile things and we'll cling to crazy. There's no shortage of real life examples. People will kill in the name of pacifism. The Sabbat weren't really that far gone. It's what happens when the nutters have power that's interesting, taking the power away from the Sabbat consequently makes things less interesting.


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