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[V5] The Sabbat in V5

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  • Originally posted by CajunKhan View Post

    I disagree. Sabbat need their own cities because only in their own cities is path-exploration really possible. In order to have stories where path exploration is paramount, you need a certain level of stability and peace and control. Can't really become a Path Paragon while doing spy stuff.
    I mean, vampires naturally keep the vast majority of their activities secret. You can have a huge abbatoir in the basement of your mansion or subway station and never have anyone know.


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    • Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
      It would not take Necroscope material directly, but some bits of VtM can be influenced by the series. And Vicissitude as the disease was introduced in Dirty Secrets
      Two corrections. First, Vicissitude as disease predates Dirty Secrets by more than two years. Vicissitude as Souleaters was directly introduced in Dirty Secrets.

      Second and more pragmatic, CTPhipps does have a point. Lumley's take is very specific and Dirty Secrets is very direct in copying it. I wouldn't say it is a sure case, but it would hard to defend in court.


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      • There's also the issue of the fact that Lumley's vampires are very alien and sci-fi while V:TM vampires are very human and personal horror/religious.

        FYI - The PDF for The Sabbat and physical copy is now available.

        https://renegadegamestudios.com/pdf-...ame-pre-order/


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        • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
          There's also the issue of the fact that Lumley's vampires are very alien and sci-fi while V:TM vampires are very human and personal horror/religious.

          FYI - The PDF for The Sabbat and physical copy is now available.

          https://renegadegamestudios.com/pdf-...ame-pre-order/

          Physical copy is still on pre-order like it was, but expected to ship soon based on emails people have gotten and posted about. They do have a current (temporary, based on the news today) free PDF with the physical preorder though, which you'll also get if you already preordered on their site.
          Last edited by elmerg; 09-24-2021, 12:28 AM.

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          • I'm going over the parts I'm most interested in now:



            * The Path write ups are addressed throughout the book and how they handle everything from ghouls to interaction without other sect members.

            * The Path of Honorable Accord, Beast, and Lilith only get a couple of paragraphs each. They say these Paths have fallen out of favor and are only showing up in a few places.

            * The Lasombra defection is later established as a major reason why the Path of Honorable Accord fell out of favor since a disproportionate number of them defected. (Pg. 80)

            * The Sabbat also speculate the defection happened for no good reason and was just the Lasombra Antediluvian ordering it and them being powerless to disobey (pg. 80).

            * Path followers don't get Stains. They otherwise don't have any rules. However, it's stated that they don't lose Path points for diablerie because that would be stupid.

            * The Sabbat now make games of targeting Touchstones and Embracing/killing them just like people on the forum have been doing.

            * The Path of Sun is kind of a Sabbat off-shoot for Thin Bloods versus actual Sabbat. They're Gehenna cultists who want to kill all other vampires. A lot of Sabbat refuse to hurt them because they're signs of Gehenna.

            * The Gehenna War can be fought anywhere the Sabbat think it should be.

            * There is no current Regent of the Sabbat.

            * Cardinals are all independent warlords of the Sabbat.

            * Miami, Rio, Madrid (though disputed with the Camarilla), and other places are still ruled by Archbishops.

            * Vykos and Lucita are both considered Antitribu now.

            * Lucita is still Archbishop of Madrid or has been replaced with an imposter. The Path of Night is now considered a variant of the Path of Cathari.

            * The Book of Nod is now full of apocrypha and other texts as some Sabbat are starting to believe the book was an "Antediluvian trick" since they keep running into things that make no sense according to it.

            * The Sabbat has pretty much decided that there's way more than 13 Antediluvians.

            * Alamut is an eldritch location where all the humans around it are dead. However, the Second Inquisition has them penned up (possibly). Night never stops to Kindred who visit it with one being stretched to forty nights. Maybe Ur-Shulgi is in charge or maybe someone else is now.

            Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-24-2021, 12:49 AM.


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            • What's the page count on the final product?

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              • Originally posted by elmerg View Post
                What's the page count on the final product?
                134 pages.

                It's a very small book but I'd say it's better than the Camarilla and Anarch books put together just from what scan I've made.


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                • Even the characters think the Lasombra defection was stupid...

                  The good news on all this is that adapting any Path out of previous descriptions will be easy.


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                  • Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                    Even the characters think the Lasombra defection was stupid...

                    The good news on all this is that adapting any Path out of previous descriptions will be easy.
                    Justin throws a lot of homages to the past silliness of the setting too. Like talking about how the Sabbat have weird ideas that the Antediluvians might be transcendant of their mortal flesh to become giant monsters or that it's impossible to kill them because they'll just come back by possessing you.

                    Sadly no reference to the Ravnos Antediluvian being nuked that I can tell.


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                    • Wow...the idea that the path of honorable accord fell out favor because they defected is literally the worst creative choice you could make...they literally all wassil. That is like a path one sin every night you have to make in pre v5. I can not express how much that makes zero sense...sigh. you literally could have picked any other path then the one who bases its entire belief system on the code of milan...

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                      • Originally posted by SuperSabbatST View Post
                        Wow...the idea that the path of honorable accord fell out favor because they defected is literally the worst creative choice you could make...they literally all wassil. That is like a path one sin every night you have to make in pre v5. I can not express how much that makes zero sense...sigh. you literally could have picked any other path then the one who bases its entire belief system on the code of milan...
                        The author really tears into them and gives a lot of statements about how the Sabbat hold them in complete contempt. Bygones of a past era and barely better than humans.

                        The writer basically says the Path of Honorable Accord was just a reskinned Road of Chivalry and some Camarilla Princes were following it, which seems like a serious retcon.


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                        • That is ridiculous and clearly they no longer care about the previous material or world. That is beyond...wow...as a long time sabbat player. Sigh.

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                          • Originally posted by SuperSabbatST View Post
                            That is ridiculous and clearly they no longer care about the previous material or world. That is beyond...wow...as a long time sabbat player. Sigh.
                            As a huge Sabbat fan, I have to say the book is fantastic for threading the needle for making the Sabbat back to their old selves.

                            However, there seems to be no sign of the Black Hand (the elite special forces Sabbat) or any of the honorable warrior elite types anymore.


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                            • I would say it makes them more like 1st ed...which is d&d monster bad guys with little depth or purpose...which i suppose was their design goal. The sabbat as this as presented existed for maybe 2 years...and all the rest? They were fleshed out and not just random inhumane monsters to fight.. even on second Ed, you could play a sabbat on honorable accord who was not just a mindless monster. The sabbat existed far longer as not as how they are presented here then when they did. This seems like..."did you like Belials brood from reqiuem?"

                              Just based on what you are saying. Well...sadly this means v5 has nothing for consumers like me. Oh well.

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                              • Originally posted by SuperSabbatST View Post
                                I would say it makes them more like 1st ed...which is d&d monster bad guys with little depth or purpose...which i suppose was their design goal. The sabbat as this as presented existed for maybe 2 years...and all the rest? They were fleshed out and not just random inhumane monsters to fight.. even on second Ed, you could play a sabbat on honorable accord who was not just a mindless monster. The sabbat existed far longer as not as how they are presented here then when they did. This seems like..."did you like Belials brood from reqiuem?"

                                Just based on what you are saying. Well...sadly this means v5 has nothing for consumers like me. Oh well.
                                I mean none of what you said above is accurate. This is a very intelligently written and interesting Sabbat that I will be interested in exploring. It has lost some of its organization but chaotic doesn't mean without depth. The book really gets into a lot of interesting philosophy and the idea of divorcing oneself from the shackles of being human.

                                The Gehenna War is just the Jyhad the Sabbat were always fighting but now they're much more into it.

                                Yes, the focus is terrifying and chaotic cultists but my favorite Dark Ages book is Clanbook: Baali and my favorite mage book is Book of Madness. Evil doesn't mean one-dimensional.
                                Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-24-2021, 01:19 AM.


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