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[V5] The Sabbat in V5

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  • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    I mean none of what you said above is accurate. This is a very intelligently written and interesting Sabbat that I will be interested in exploring. It has lost some of its organization but chaotic doesn't mean without depth. The book really gets into a lot of interesting philosophy and the idea of divorcing oneself from the shackles of being human.

    The Gehenna War is just the Jyhad the Sabbat were always fighting but now they're much more into it.

    Yes, the focus is terrifying and chaotic cultists but my favorite Dark Ages book is Clanbook: Baali and my favorite mage book is Book of Madness. Evil doesn't mean one-dimensional.

    are the Paths fleshed out more than the preview implied? Or are they all that shallow and mindless?

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    • I mean...its factual that vtm 1st edition was released in 1991 and players guide to the sabbat came out in 1992. Sabbat as mysterious boogeyman man npcs that were just monsters...was not something that existed in the game for a very long time. The opposite is is true.

      I am glad you will find use for it. As someone who pretty much has run mostly sabbat for years. It serves no purpose to me and is basically a remake at this point with little connection to the past.

      Which is fine, that seems to be their intent with this edition. I just wish I could support it. But its not for me :-)

      So we will prolly just have to agree to disagree. It's all just personal preference anyways. No one's coming to my house to burn my sabbat books lol.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Taggie View Post


        are the Paths fleshed out more than the preview implied? Or are they all that shallow and mindless?
        As stated, there's a lot more of the Paths spread out through the book than the sample.

        Originally posted by SuperSabbatST View Post
        I mean...its factual that vtm 1st edition was released in 1991 and players guide to the sabbat came out in 1992. Sabbat as mysterious boogeyman man npcs that were just monsters...was not something that existed in the game for a very long time. The opposite is is true.

        I am glad you will find use for it. As someone who pretty much has run mostly sabbat for years. It serves no purpose to me and is basically a remake at this point with little connection to the past.

        Which is fine, that seems to be their intent with this edition. I just wish I could support it. But its not for me :-)

        So we will prolly just have to agree to disagree. It's all just personal preference anyways. No one's coming to my house to burn my sabbat books lol.
        Clearly I'm not communicating well. I don't think the Sabbat depicted here are shown to be mysterious boogeymen or "just" monsters in the slightest. They aren't depicted as PCs and that's a shame but that's not the same as being treated as orcs either. This is nothing like 1st Edition which barely had any information on them whatsoever.

        But yes, you might or might not like their presentation. YMMV. I understand different strokes for different folks.
        Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-24-2021, 01:35 AM.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • Some more bits of the book now that I've read half if it:



          * The Path of Caine's scholarship is now mostly limited to studying Blood Sorcery, Noddism, and Auctorius Ritae. They are disdainful of ghouls and eschew associating with mortals

          * The Path of Death and Soul is now the scholarship clan with the vast majority of their actions devoted to studying when not killing.

          * The Path of Cathari are the largest sect of Sabbat by far.

          * Path of Power and Inner Voice hate giving up domain. No shit, really.

          * No Sabbat is on the Path of Humanity and the idea is ridiculous. Any Sabbat not fully indoctrinated is not a real Sabbat (so go @Taggie).

          * Some "Sabbat" are fakes and the Sabbat kill these.

          * Some really good art.

          * Lots of really good fiction bits.

          * The Sabbat can make zombies now. Lots of fleshcrafted monsters are listed as things created by Blood Sorcery or Vicissitude or Ritae.

          * Lots of Auctorius Ritae and occult ritual in the Nu Sabbat. A discussion of how every Path deals with the rites and how it performs them..
          Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-24-2021, 02:02 AM.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
            Unless my copy of it have some problem (not impossible, tell me if it is), the PGttS have no write-up for the Discipline whatsoever. It has a section called "Vicissitude Revisited" in page 37 (title in page 36) with the idea of the disease and the rules for infection, but no write-up for the Discipline proper. It has write-ups for Mytherceria, Spiritus, Dark Thaumaturgy and Demonic Investments.
            That sounds like the pirated, no-art copy of the Storytellers Handbook to the Sabbat (1993) that I've seen floating around online in the past. In the original book and the legal PDF, the "Vicissitude Revisited" section starts on page 63. Mytherceria, Spiritus, and the rest are also Storytellers Handbook material. The Players Guide to the Sabbat was released in 1992, and has the first Lasombra and Tzimisce writeups, all the original antitribu, and introduces the new disciplines of Dementation, Obtenebration, and Vicissitude.
            Last edited by Elphilm; 09-24-2021, 02:00 AM.

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            • Although of course a more in-depth approach is more my style cuz I really dig what is already written, the presentation of the book is excellent, I can really visualize what they made of the sect, and find very interesting ways to use it, even retroactively. Although it lacks a bit of personalities (only some names are mentioned, of importance I only got Lucita and Vykos, but are mere mentions), it helped SO much that much of the book is written out-of-character, so that everything is clear, and straight to the point. The mix was good, because the almost complete in-character way that the Anarchs book was given made me really have a hard time imagining the sect. The Sabbat V5 book does a really good job of illustrating the sect (and holy molly so much good Art), without seeming like a definite and unshakable description. I have read much, almost 1/2 and the rest gone through stopping at bits here and there, and am excited to pick it apart and make it mine.
              One way I have to describe this book is: Very Usable. Probably more than any sect book of V5 till now. The tools are given straight-on.


              Strange... When coincidence seems too convenient, I prefer to call it fate.

              -Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain d=

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              • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                * No Sabbat is on the Path of Humanity and the idea is ridiculous.
                That's a welcome return to form that I genuinely like!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                  Some more bits of the book now that I've read half if it:



                  * The Path of Caine's scholarship is now mostly limited to studying Blood Sorcery, Noddism, and Auctorius Ritae. They are disdainful of ghouls and eschew associating with mortals

                  * The Path of Death and Soul is now the scholarship clan with the vast majority of their actions devoted to studying when not killing.

                  * The Path of Cathari are the largest sect of Sabbat by far.

                  * Path of Power and Inner Voice hate giving up domain. No shit, really.

                  * No Sabbat is on the Path of Humanity and the idea is ridiculous. Any Sabbat not fully indoctrinated is not a real Sabbat (so go @Taggie).

                  * Some "Sabbat" are fakes and the Sabbat kill these.

                  * Some really good art.

                  * Lots of really good fiction bits.

                  * The Sabbat can make zombies now. Lots of fleshcrafted monsters are listed as things created by Blood Sorcery or Vicissitude or Ritae.

                  * Lots of Auctorius Ritae and occult ritual in the Nu Sabbat. A discussion of how every Path deals with the rites and how it performs them..

                  That's a lot better than I feared by the sounds of it.

                  Comment


                  • Some of these idea's don't really contribute anything to the setting or game eg no humanity is silly, Honerable accord was never really a prominant Lasombra path as I recall and doesnt really match their mo. I do like path of sun death cultists and the tacit admission the lasombra defection made no sense. I think I'll wait until their's a discount.
                    Last edited by Ragged Robin; 09-24-2021, 05:02 AM.

                    Comment


                    • I kind of dig several of the points highlighted by CTPhipps here and by others on Reddit. Maybe that's surprising to some considering my "grognardy" preferences for the 1st and early 2nd Edition setting, but many things about the V5 Sabbat feel like the writers have homed in on the original concept of the sect instead of getting lost in the weeds with the metaplot. I like the redefinition of the antitribu label, the idea that Paths of Enlightenment take the place of clan culture within the Sabbat, and refocusing the sect into small, nomadic groups that resemble terrorist cells more than the "dark reflection" of the Camarilla that the Sabbat became during the Revised era. Of course there are several ideas that I don't personally care for, but overall this sounds more like a success than a failure.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ragged Robin View Post
                        Honerable accord was never really a prominant Lasombra path as I recall and doesnt really match their mo.
                        Honourable accord works well for literally everyone except the Baali (Oh yes sir, I can't lie to you, I am indeed of that evil line.... wait I'm a good one on honourable... no, please no!! )

                        Path of Power and the inner voice is a joke path. It's great comedy and good for making fun of certain kinds of people but not something you want if you plan to live. Among Lasombra there's probably more on HA than PPIV, but PPIV is more bombastic and outlandish. It's like... there's a lot more shy conservatives than fascist ethno-nationalists out there, but the latter certainly try harder to grab your attention.


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                        • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post

                          Honourable accord works well for literally everyone except the Baali (Oh yes sir, I can't lie to you, I am indeed of that evil line.... wait I'm a good one on honourable... no, please no!! )

                          Path of Power and the inner voice is a joke path. It's great comedy and good for making fun of certain kinds of people but not something you want if you plan to live. Among Lasombra there's probably more on HA than PPIV, but PPIV is more bombastic and outlandish. It's like... there's a lot more shy conservatives than fascist ethno-nationalists out there, but the latter certainly try harder to grab your attention.

                          True but Lasombra don't really seem the sort to consider duty, honour and communal altruism considering they're a bunch of lying, selfish backstabbing bastards prior to v5 and in v5 they're a bunch of lying, incompetant, selfish spinlesss, backstabbing losers.

                          I always got the impression primary paths were Night and Power, with Heaven

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                          • If the Sabbat aren't gonna be playable in V5 I hope they introduce something like the Ordo Dracul into VtM.

                            Anybody who has gotten the new Sabbat PDF, can you tell me what it says about the Tzimisce? In the V5 Companion it says that a significant amount of Tzimisce have went to the Anarchs but it really hasn't been followed up since. I'd love to know what the Sabbat think of it. Also, hopfully they get into what roles they are now playing in the Movement.

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                            • I'd rather we got more books for Requiem, or even updated to 2ed Clan/Covenant books rather than having the things unique to it being vampirized (eh) by Mascarade.

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                              • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                                Sadly no reference to the Ravnos Antediluvian being nuked that I can tell.
                                Probably they don't want to bring up that they nuked it without any consideration if people would find it obtuse to throw a nuclear device on India and somehow no one notice, just because at the time they judged it to be a backwaters country where no one would care about a huge swatch of land and its inhabitants.

                                Originally posted by SuperSabbatST View Post
                                ...which is d&d monster bad guys with little depth or purpose...
                                Stop offending, D&D treats its creatures with far more care and depth than that and do not ignores 50 years of history in creating rich cultures for them.

                                Orcs have culture, religion, history, complex personalities. Oh, and are playable.

                                Originally posted by Elphilm View Post
                                That sounds like the pirated, no-art copy of the Storytellers Handbook to the Sabbat (1993) that I've seen floating around online in the past. In the original book and the legal PDF, the "Vicissitude Revisited" section starts on page 63. Mytherceria, Spiritus, and the rest are also Storytellers Handbook material. The Players Guide to the Sabbat was released in 1992, and has the first Lasombra and Tzimisce writeups, all the original antitribu, and introduces the new disciplines of Dementation, Obtenebration, and Vicissitude.
                                Good to know, that explains a lot...


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