[V5] The Sabbat in V5

[Shakanaka]

I think overall scrapping the whole new system would be a better option tbh. I think thats the reason why they didn't make the Sabbat playable off the bat in V5. The system they bought in from CofD isn't compatible with oWoD VTM. They couldn't think of anything else or just didn't want the original system as is- so they went to these great lengths to remove the Sabbat at every turn. Bad writing to justify bad mechanics.

[CTPhipps]

I think overall scrapping the whole new system would be a better option tbh. I think thats the reason why they didn't make the Sabbat playable off the bat in V5. The system they bought in from CofD isn't compatible with oWoD VTM. They couldn't think of anything else or just didn't want the original system as is- so they went to these great lengths to remove the Sabbat at every turn. Bad writing to justify bad mechanics.

If by scrapping, you mean wholeheartedly embracing it, I agree.

[Necroticbinder]

Tenets are forced on you by the ST, not part of your Path, their aren't enough convictions to reflect any Path, and Humanity was as much a Path as any other, one with set ethics and sins, so using its name for a general 'not a beast' stat devalues the entire idea, and the conflict in the game that actually interested me, the Intellect Vs Beast battle, which requires a rigid inflexible code, not a mush.

Hey look. Taggie demonstrating a lack of understanding of the supposedly bad system, or a strawman.

Tenets are 'forced' on you by. Yourself and your group. It's not the ST unilaterally going "These are the tenets". And yet. Even if it was, the tenets are irrelevant. Why? Because your Convictions are your path. Following those means the tenets could be "Don't exist, don't be sabbat, and follow the mormon bible" and you'd be mitigating stains for actions taken in pursuit of your path.

[CTPhipps]

Tenets are forced on you by the ST, not part of your Path, their aren't enough convictions to reflect any Path, and Humanity was as much a Path as any other, one with set ethics and sins, so using its name for a general 'not a beast' stat devalues the entire idea, and the conflict in the game that actually interested me, the Intellect Vs Beast battle, which requires a rigid inflexible code, not a mush.

Oddly, I think you could do all of that in the game better than before now. The players just have a lot more roleplaying freedom about what they think their Paths are about.

[blailton]

I think overall scrapping the whole new system would be a better option tbh. I think thats the reason why they didn't make the Sabbat playable off the bat in V5. The system they bought in from CofD isn't compatible with oWoD VTM. They couldn't think of anything else or just didn't want the original system as is- so they went to these great lengths to remove the Sabbat at every turn. Bad writing to justify bad mechanics.

This.

Sabbat became impossible so, their solution was put Sabbat on a bus and never have to worry with this game hole anymore.

If any Sabbat player is reading this: v5 developers don't want you playing v5.

[elmerg]

This.

Sabbat became impossible so, their solution was put Sabbat on a bus and never have to worry with this game hole anymore.

If any Sabbat player is reading this: v5 developers don't want you playing v5.

Man, the level of hyperbole in these threads from the people who dislike V5. But here's the simplest fix: if you don't like it, don't play it. And don't jump into the positive V5 threads to just get all bothered and continue to repeat how much you hate V5 ad nauseum.

[Lian]

It is amusing that Sabbat fans wish the Sword of Caine, the Great army of Gehenna to sit out Gehenna. Really, they left a bunch of places. There are still Sabbat domains as of Blood gods. A bunch of cities got swapped around. That you probably didn't play in and didn't matter much. The Sabbat are the most complicated part of Vampire to get right. You need to have everything else standing so you can have Antitribu at the very least.

So the Sabbat will be back from Crusades, with lost knowledge that they totally didn't have before stolen from the ancients(much like the European IRL crusaders bringing back algebra) they as the last faction that comes into play before say something like the true hand will get a heaping dose of power creep and inevitably V5 early adopters will be screaming how broken the Sabbat is, with the justification being the battle hardened crusaders need to be this badass to survive.

[higgipedia]

Tenets are forced on you by the ST, not part of your Path, their aren't enough convictions to reflect any Path, and Humanity was as much a Path as any other, one with set ethics and sins, so using its name for a general 'not a beast' stat devalues the entire idea, and the conflict in the game that actually interested me, the Intellect Vs Beast battle, which requires a rigid inflexible code, not a mush.

If Tenets are FORCED on you by the Storyteller, then your Storyteller is ignoring the spirit of the Campaign Tenets. Per p. 172 of the Core Rulebook:

The troupe should assemble a set of chronicle Tenets, based on anything from genre emulation, dramatic irony, to personal taste or real-life player concerns. ... The chronicle Tenets comprise a kind of ethical ground floor, so that when and if the characters do become nihilistic serial killers, it carries a cost.

Also make sure to talk through the chosen Tenets in your group, so that all players understand what they mean and what kind of actions would consist violations of these Tenets.

These should be negotiated between all players and the Storyteller. These negotiations would easily allow the tenets to include something more Sabbat path-like.

[Damian May]

If Tenets are FORCED on you by the Storyteller, then your Storyteller is ignoring the spirit of the Campaign Tenets. Per p. 172 of the Core Rulebook:



These should be negotiated between all players and the Storyteller. These negotiations would easily allow the tenets to include something more Sabbat path-like.

That doesn't really work for online or convention play, if you don't accept the Tenets given you simply won't be chosen from the pool of players.

[Damian May]

This.

Sabbat became impossible so, their solution was put Sabbat on a bus and never have to worry with this game hole anymore.

If any Sabbat player is reading this: v5 developers don't want you playing v5.

Well, one of the main playtesters seems to agree that that's the case and sees no issue with Sabbat fans being cut out of VtM for the foreseeable future ( ' if you don't like it, don't play' )..so, yeah I guess it's semi-official.

Honestly 90% of all th online games I've seen have been Can games anyway, so I don't expect the big Anarch push to have much effect on products going forward.

Come back to V5 in a few years, it'll probably look much more like VtM by then, now I'm off to worry about W5; at least the HE writers team looks good.

[CTPhipps]

That doesn't really work for online or convention play, if you don't accept the Tenets given you simply won't be chosen from the pool of players.

STs and players always have to reach an accord or the game flops.

Honestly 90% of all th online games I've seen have been Can games anyway, so I don't expect the big Anarch push to have much effect on products going forward.

Well the currently most popular game online streaming is an Anarch game.

[blailton]

Man, the level of hyperbole in these threads from the people who dislike V5. But here's the simplest fix: if you don't like it, don't play it. And don't jump into the positive V5 threads to just get all bothered and continue to repeat how much you hate V5 ad nauseum.

This is not a [+] thread.

The same can be said about you.

If you dont like my comments just block me and never have to worry about me again.

Simple.

[blailton]

It is amusing that Sabbat fans wish the Sword of Caine, the Great army of Gehenna to sit out Gehenna. Really, they left a bunch of places. There are still Sabbat domains as of Blood gods. A bunch of cities got swapped around. That you probably didn't play in and didn't matter much. The Sabbat are the most complicated part of Vampire to get right. You need to have everything else standing so you can have Antitribu at the very least.

So the Sabbat will be back from Crusades, with lost knowledge that they totally didn't have before stolen from the ancients(much like the European IRL crusaders bringing back algebra) they as the last faction that comes into play before say something like the true hand will get a heaping dose of power creep and inevitably V5 early adopters will be screaming how broken the Sabbat is, with the justification being the battle hardened crusaders need to be this badass to survive.

6/10 to your fanfiction.

Until then, I will keep my conviction that the Sabbat got nuked to the writers force down our troaths a lite nobleright setting.

[CTPhipps]

6/10 to your fanfiction.

Until then, I will keep my conviction that the Sabbat got nuked to the writers force down our troaths a lite nobleright setting.

V5 is obviously a much darker (maybe mature maybe not) setting than previous editions. We both know this.

The Sabbat also haven't been nuked since they play a large role in the Lasombra defection and show up in THE CHICAGO FOLIOS.

Hell, while it's a minor role, they also play a role in THE FALL OF LONDON given Monty Coven's followers are all Sabbat.

[blailton]

V5 is obviously a much darker (maybe mature maybe not) setting than previous editions. We both know this.

The Sabbat also haven't been nuked since they play a large role in the Lasombra defection and show up in THE CHICAGO FOLIOS.

Hell, while it's a minor role, they also play a role in THE FALL OF LONDON given Monty Coven's followers are all Sabbat.

Zzzzzzzzz

A bunch of vampires with 0 connection with the rest of the sect and dont have any relevance to the metaplot.

9 clows acting on their own is not sabbat

They are just goblins to the Pcs smash