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What do you think the canon NPCs are up to?

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  • #31
    That's valid, I suppose it's one of those things that even more then usual relies upon personal preference. I personally prefer Galbraith as a Regent over shifting the metaplot into the Fourth Sabbat Civil War but I can definitely see why people would like the balkanization of the sect and the opportunity to change its direction but kinda like situations like the War For Concordia that's the sort of thing I'd rather leave to individual STs and chronicles.

    Anyway, I'll probably pull out my notes again and get ready to post something for Clan Tremere.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Gryffon15 View Post
      That's valid, I suppose it's one of those things that even more then usual relies upon personal preference. I personally prefer Galbraith as a Regent over shifting the metaplot into the Fourth Sabbat Civil War but I can definitely see why people would like the balkanization of the sect and the opportunity to change its direction but kinda like situations like the War For Concordia that's the sort of thing I'd rather leave to individual STs and chronicles.

      Anyway, I'll probably pull out my notes again and get ready to post something for Clan Tremere.
      I think Lucita was meant to be Regent or at least Regent of the PC's faction of the Sabbat with the original 4th Edition plan.

      However, in my game, Polonia is the Regent of the Sabbat and that's why the Gehenna Crusade took off. Only the Regent could order such a huge chunk of the Sabbat to the Middle East.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #33
        I posted this a while ago:

        Dominique Tourain has gone Anarch. She's basically a holdover from the original Anarch Revolt who saw the Sabbat as the first Anarch Movement, only to watch her sect morph over the centuries from something that was about freedom from elder tyranny to exactly the opposite, a heavily top-down organization dominated by its own elders. She'd harbored a lot of doubts about the Sabbat for a while (Black Fox made an excellent post here about its evolution and increasingly authoritarian leadership over the centuries), but always hoped she could push it back towards its roots. She never could. No elders wanted to give up power and the neonates were shitheads with about as much regard for human life as toilet paper. Melinda Galbraith's assassination gave her some hope for the first time in a while, and she made a bid to become regent (as partly detailed in Beckett's Jyhad Diary) that was ultimately unsuccessful. The start of the Gehenna Crusade was the final nail in the coffin to her belief the Sabbat was about freedom, and convinced her the sect could never be reformed. The Anarchs were on the upswing, so she jumped ship.

        She wishes she'd thought to do that hundreds of years ago. She could have been an arguably better MacNeil than MacNeil, making her wisdom and experience available to the sect without actually forbidding its members from establishing a working system of government like the Scotsman essentially did.

        I also like Temoch the Jackal, a persona in METS, as the regent for the Sabbat. He's supposed to have been Embraced in the Mexican War of Independence, which is really darn young for a Sabbat regent. How is that so? You could say he's just a puppet of some elder prisci, but this is the Sabbat. I rationalize it as him basically being one of the most successful diablerists in the history of the sect--he started at basically dirt (Jesús Alcalá, the 13th gen Gangrel antitirbu from Mexico City by Night, is his younger broodmate) and simply devoured one elder after another until he was at the top of the food chain. (It's a minor peeve of mine that most canon diablerists were usually Embraced at pretty low gen to begin with. Where's the love for the "less privileged" Embraces?) The Gehenna Crusade and the chance it posed to climb up even higher was irresistible to him. Having been Embraced during a decade-long revolution and made his bones during the later Mexican Revolution, he's used to constant turmoil and conflict, as well as to leading underdogs against a superior foe. That background combined with his experience hunting and diablerizing elders makes him perhaps the most qualified regent there is to lead the Sabbat in its present new form.

        Or perhaps the worst qualified, if all those devoured ancients aren't all just "pulling a Mithras" on their murderers. The Sabbat has essentially gambled its entire future as a sect on that not happening in significant numbers.


        Blood and Bourbon, my New Orleans-based Vampire chronicle.

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        • #34
          Tiamat, of Bloody Hearts: DiablerieBritain, survived the attempt on her existence. She would wake, reincorporate into the modern world and under the influence of the demon Drakonskyr would move to LA and become a producer of the various "Real Wives of..." shows.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
            Tiamat, of Bloody Hearts: DiablerieBritain, survived the attempt on her existence. She would wake, reincorporate into the modern world and under the influence of the demon Drakonskyr would move to LA and become a producer of the various "Real Wives of..." shows.
            Truly this is the worst timeline.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #36
              imo, Galbraith was overrated,
              she had the cool factor for being the antitribu regent and a woman, a symbol of mexico city as the city of women, as the leaders of the sabbat in mexico were female

              the issue is...that's it, that's all she was, just a symbol,
              her policies weren't her own, any initiative of hers could be credited to either Gorchist or Shaitan,
              and her contribution to the sabbat could be summed up as her attending the ritae and nodding at every one of the BlackHand/Tal'mahe'ra demands,
              we don't know what motivates her, we don't know what she thinks of the sabbat or what she wants with shaitan,

              she was the embodiment of "just sit and look pretty", which is fitting for a Toreador but...heh
              (I know, this can be fixed by the ST, and I know it might be the point of this thread, but I'm talking canon rn)


              Temoch was...just as bad imo, but for very different reasons,

              Temoch is too perfect, he's everything a sabbat could hope to be and he doesn't even pretend, he is 100% legit,
              he's relatively young, antitribu, faithful to the cause, strong, and got his position with strength and...yeah, he's a saint

              he has zero flaws, he's too perfect, no trace of corruption, nothing...he's boring is what I'm saying


              the regency candidates in Mexico by Night were more interesting imo,
              they had motivations and strengths, but also flaws, doubts, double dealings, hypocrisies and insecurities

              I'm not 100% sure about the ones in BJD, but to me they feel like Temoch types, in other words mary sues,
              and, while I have nothing against mary sues (they can make great characters, especially as antagonists, and they're the norm for most canon npcs in 1st ed/2nd ed),
              I can't help but be more interested in the others
              Last edited by Pleiades; 05-25-2020, 07:51 AM.


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              • #37
                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                I suspect they offed her because White Wolf was very interested in making the Sabbat the no. 2# playable faction. Having an Infernalist as the Sabbat's leader undermined their claims of being an equally valid sect.

                Actually, there are some funny salient bits on this story.
                The "Melinda Regent of the Sabbat" cited in 1st edition was supposed to be Lasombra and a big deal was made of how all regents up to that point had been from "the Sabbat clans" (Lasombra & Tzimisce).
                Meanwhile in Chaos Factor, the first book to adress Mexico City in WoD, we have Melinda Galbraith, a Toreador Antitribu Cardinal, that happens to secretly be an infernalist, due to centuries of stealth brainwashing by the Baali methuselah Shaitan (what is kind of hilarious, because Helena's notes in CbN describe a dominate elder power to counter exactly that, if memory tricks me not). Going just by those bits of book info they could - should - have been completely different characters that just happen to share the first name. Damn, one of the Tremere Councilors is called Meerlinda and no one theorizes she's secretly the Sabbat Regent (wouldn't that be a crazy twist?!).

                Honestly, Galbraith as the Regent of the Sabbat always reeked of runaway memetic mutation to me. Yeah, canon evolves, changes and its mostly a matter of personal taste anyway, but i like to stick to that.

                Yeah, kind of hypocritical of my part, considering i retconned Dmitri (the Malkavian 4th gen chess aficionado and Sabbat leader from Succubus Club adventure Player of Pawns) and his followers as a Lasombra Amici Noctis cabal in my own games, but cut a guy some slack...
                Last edited by Baaldam; 07-31-2020, 12:15 AM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post


                  Actually, there are some funny salient bits on this story.
                  The "Melinda Regent of the Sabbat" cited in 1st edition was supposed to be Lasombra and a big deal was made of how all regents up to that point had been from "the Sabbat clans" (Lasombra & Tzimisce).
                  Meanwhile in Chaos Factor, the first book to adress Mexico City in WoD, we have Melinda Galbraith, a Toreador Antitribu Cardinal, that happens to secretly be an infernalist, due to centuries of stealth brainwashing by the Baali methuselah Shaitan (what is kind of hilarious, because Helena's notes in CbN describe a dominate elder power to counter exactly that, if memory tricks me not). Going just by those bits of book info they could - should - have been completely different characters that just happen to share the first name. Damn, one of the Tremere Councilors is called Meerlinda and no one theorizes she's secretly the Sabbat Regent (wouldn't that be a crazy twist?!).

                  Honestly, Galbraith as the Regent of the Sabbat always reeked of runaway memetic mutation to me. Yeah, canon evolves, changes and its mostly a matter of personal taste anyway, but i like to stick to that.

                  Yeah, kind of hypocritical of my part, considering i retconned Dmitri (the Malkavian 4th gen chess aficionado and Sabbat leader from Succubus Club adventure Player of Pawns) and his followers as a Lasombra Amici Noctis cabal in my own games, but cut a guy some slack...
                  I admit, I love the idea of a Toreador Regent.

                  Mind you, it shouldn't be that hard for a 5th Generation Infernalist to take over the sect.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                    I admit, I love the idea of a Toreador Regent.
                    Oh, i don't mind it on itself, on the contrary, it's all the little continuity inconsistencies, together with the lack of a clear character/narrative of her own that bothers me.
                    Melinda's history as written is not about her but things done to her by others. She's a pawn made queen and kind of hollow at that, a serious shame and missed opportunity imho.

                    Had more been done of the "first antitribu Regent!" angle - to make it more clearly a thing and not an accident of character conflation - and we given an actual history of hers, one that went beyond her title, sire and/or master, i would totally root for her.

                    (Ok, i'll also admit her stats - high atributes, low-ish skills, a bunch of elder powers with no description - also bother me a lot)

                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                    Mind you, it shouldn't be that hard for a 5th Generation Infernalist to take over the sect.
                    This i have more of a issue with. "Oh, she's a 5th gen elder - not really a methuselah - ergo taking over sect leadership shouldn't be too much of a challenge to her."
                    "Awesomeness by dots" is something i took issue with and probably always will, i guess.

                    edit: re-reading her sheet i just noticed the Occult 3 (now i'm imagining her constantly faking mystic know-how she doesn't know or care for - or tricking it out of people who do have) and Computer 4. In recognition of this awesomely salient bit of incongruity/flavor/unexpected, it's now my personal headcanon that Galbraith faked her death, for the sake of personal freedom and to fully dedicate her time to perfecting her internet persona and skills. Also in a fling/rivalry with Zipper from LA and Bobby Weatherbottom from Chicago.
                    Last edited by Baaldam; 07-31-2020, 08:40 AM.

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                    • #40
                      A couple of points:

                      1. I believe Melinda is actually masquerading as a Lasombra so she's not known to be a Toreador Antitribu.

                      2. She could have killed her way to the Regency after Chaos Factor.


                      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                        A couple of points:

                        1. I believe Melinda is actually masquerading as a Lasombra so she's not known to be a Toreador Antitribu.
                        A common answer/fan theory to get around the continuity issues i initially mentioned.

                        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                        2. She could have killed her way to the Regency after Chaos Factor.
                        So from '93 to '01 she went from Cardinal to Regent to bloodstain on the floor - and we get little to no story out of this?
                        See what i'm getting at?

                        Also, those are us fans of the game stopgaping the holes. Again.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

                          So from '93 to '01 she went from Cardinal to Regent to bloodstain on the floor - and we get little to no story out of this?
                          See what i'm getting at?
                          Eh, that's why these forums exist.


                          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

                            So from '93 to '01 she went from Cardinal to Regent to bloodstain on the floor - and we get little to no story out of this?
                            See what i'm getting at?
                            iirc, the regent IS the cardinal of mexico

                            and, regardless of her being antitribu or not, chaos factor should be retconned, and that's that


                            -

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

                              iirc, the regent IS the cardinal of mexico
                              Is it, double booking? Must make for an hell of an administrative agenda.

                              Originally posted by Pleiades View Post
                              and, regardless of her being antitribu or not, chaos factor should be retconned, and that's that
                              Possibly, but care to delve on your reasons for saying so?

                              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                              Eh, that's why these forums exist.
                              True. Anyway, i would really appreciate if someone took the time to adress/hang a lampshade on these little issues of Melinda's background - when did she become regent, did she fake being Lasombra for some undefined period of time or was there a precursor with the same first name leading to the confusion, etc - and give her some actual backstory that is not other more powerful kindred doing things to her (being shangaied to the Americas, then dumped on Mexico city by Helena, brainwashed into going Path of Evil Revelations by Shaitan/Huitzilopochtli from torpor, etc) while at it.

                              Like, what was she doing in the almost four centuries between her embrace (1143) and coming to Mexico in the time of Cortés' conquest (1519-1521)?
                              Also, why did Helena pick a probably scottish childe, instead of the mediterranean ones (Maria, Consuela, Eletria, possibly Alexandria) ones, that should have much easier time bleinding in, to stay in the city? When and how did Melinda join the Sabbat, since she most probably was not when she arrived in the continent under Helena's wing?

                              Lots of spots to adress with her, both in what is written and what is not.
                              Last edited by Baaldam; 07-31-2020, 09:48 AM.

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                              • #45
                                I admit it's pure headcanon but my take on her background is:

                                * She was Embraced by Helena to be one of her Herd like so many others.

                                * She joined the Sabbat in order to escape the Blood Bond to Helena.

                                * While living in Mexico City, she was contacted by Shaitan and corrupted.

                                * Much of her infernalism is driven by a desire to never be enslaved by her sire again.

                                * Her infernalism gave her the power to assassinate the previous Regent and make herself so.

                                * She uses Dark Thaumaturgy to impersonate a Lasombra.


                                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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