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  • Messerach

    I just finished V:tM-Bloodlines (again, waiting for part 2) and found out that I still didn't find answer to one question: who is Messerach, the "resident" of Ankaran Sarcophagus? The game suggests it's a ghoul of queen Lamastu (who may be Lilith). On the other hand ghoul couldn't survive so long. His image suggest Mummy. I also find a theory thathe's a surviving Capadocian, Childe of Lazarus. Any suggestions?


    Warrior of the Rainbow
    Saint among the sinners
    Pure among the dirt
    Loser among winners

  • #2
    pretty sure this one is unanswered.

    also ghouls absolutely can survive that long

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Nail Eater View Post
      I just finished V:tM-Bloodlines (again, waiting for part 2) and found out that I still didn't find answer to one question: who is Messerach, the "resident" of Ankaran Sarcophagus? The game suggests it's a ghoul of queen Lamastu (who may be Lilith). On the other hand ghoul couldn't survive so long. His image suggest Mummy. I also find a theory thathe's a surviving Capadocian, Childe of Lazarus. Any suggestions?
      My assumption is that the "joke" is that Messerach was a mortal human king, who worshiped Laamatsu. There was nothing supernatural about him whatsoever.

      Jack is talking to a normal mummified corpse.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by archderd View Post
        pretty sure this one is unanswered.

        also ghouls absolutely can survive that long
        Nail Eater is right. Ghouls CAN retroactively be quasi-immortal, but they'd have to always have a supply of Vampire vitae to sustain them. The mummy that is the center of this topic would've already bit the dust- Ghouls can't go into torpor.


        Jade Kingdom Warrior

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        • #5
          i think the best answer is: White Wolf never got far enough along to figure it out. If you remember the whole bloodlines story was supposed to be canon and possibly play into Gehenna, then Bloodlines got delayed and White Wolf destroyed the VtM universe before it got released. No one probably worked out how the two fit together because there wasn't a need to at that point.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Gubenyochi View Post
            i think the best answer is: White Wolf never got far enough along to figure it out. If you remember the whole bloodlines story was supposed to be canon and possibly play into Gehenna, then Bloodlines got delayed and White Wolf destroyed the VtM universe before it got released. No one probably worked out how the two fit together because there wasn't a need to at that point.
            Is there any reason to assume Messerach wasn't just a human corpse? I mean, the whole point is this is just Jack assassinating the Prince in such a way that it can't be traced back to him.

            Jack slaughtered all the people on the Elizabeth Dane, probably because he's old enough to think Dracula is a obscure or "new" novel.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #7
              Yeah, at the end of the game it looked like it was just an ancient corpse. Messerach wasn't a vampire or anything supernatural, just a normal dead human corpse.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

                Nail Eater is right. Ghouls CAN retroactively be quasi-immortal, but they'd have to always have a supply of Vampire vitae to sustain them. The mummy that is the center of this topic would've already bit the dust- Ghouls can't go into torpor.
                i'm not saying he was a torpored ghoul, i'm saying he's a standard mummified human corpse

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by AnubisXy View Post
                  Yeah, at the end of the game it looked like it was just an ancient corpse. Messerach wasn't a vampire or anything supernatural, just a normal dead human corpse.
                  I've got a mixed feelings about that. On one hand it could be a twist of plot, when everybody expects Antideluvian and it happens to be an ordinary corpse. On the other hand why everyone had their pants full about it? And does the ordinary corpse (even mummified) would remain intact after being exposed to the elements. Also as I can imagine Smiling Jack talking to a dead body I can hardly imagine him as a grave robber (even if he simply wanted to use the coffin to kill the Prince or Ming Xiao). And, if he wanted that, he could simply shoot them, the explosives, especially planted like that, are too unpredictable. Moreover, the sarcophagus seems to be opened from the inside and no dead body could do that. And, of course, if it's a mortal corpse, then what cabbie does there?


                  Warrior of the Rainbow
                  Saint among the sinners
                  Pure among the dirt
                  Loser among winners

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nail Eater View Post
                    I've got a mixed feelings about that. On one hand it could be a twist of plot, when everybody expects Antideluvian and it happens to be an ordinary corpse. On the other hand why everyone had their pants full about it? And does the ordinary corpse (even mummified) would remain intact after being exposed to the elements. Also as I can imagine Smiling Jack talking to a dead body I can hardly imagine him as a grave robber (even if he simply wanted to use the coffin to kill the Prince or Ming Xiao). And, if he wanted that, he could simply shoot them, the explosives, especially planted like that, are too unpredictable. Moreover, the sarcophagus seems to be opened from the inside and no dead body could do that. And, of course, if it's a mortal corpse, then what cabbie does there?
                    Well the whole thing was a plot by Smiling Jack. Smiling Jack breaks into the Elizabeth Dane, opens the sacrophogus, puts a bunch of C4 in it, and then sneaks out the corpse. He murders everyone on the Elizabeth Dane in the process to make it look like the "Antediluvian" woke up and spreads rumors about it. He lets everyone's Gehenna phobia run wild and the Elders all start fighting over it.

                    He knows La Croix will want to diablerize the Elder, though, and when he does, it blows up La Croix.
                    Last edited by CTPhipps; 06-06-2020, 08:41 PM.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                      Well the whole thing was a plot by Smiling Jack. Smiling Jack breaks into the Elizabeth Dane, opens the sacrophogus, puts a bunch of C4 in it, and then sneaks out the corpse. He murders everyone on the Elizabeth Dane in the process to make it look like the "Antediluvian" woke up and spreads rumors about it. He lets everyone's Gehenna phobia run wild and the Elders all start fighting over it.

                      He knows La Croix will want to diablerize the Elder, though, and when he does, it blows up La Croix.
                      Ok, that explains all but one thing: why the body didn't decompose after being put out of the sarcophagus, especially if we consider the fact that the ending happens a few nights after Jack's visit to Elizabeth Dane. You may be right, it's his style. Still I find it a little trivial to end the story like that.


                      Warrior of the Rainbow
                      Saint among the sinners
                      Pure among the dirt
                      Loser among winners

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nail Eater View Post
                        Ok, that explains all but one thing: why the body didn't decompose after being put out of the sarcophagus, especially if we consider the fact that the ending happens a few nights after Jack's visit to Elizabeth Dane. You may be right, it's his style. Still I find it a little trivial to end the story like that.


                        1. I think it probably is going to. Jack doesn't care about the value of the historical artifact. It'll probably fall to pieces if moved.

                        2. I think it was a nice way of grounding the story in that it turns out it wasn't a big epic story like VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE: REDEMPTION where you personally face down a 5th generation Methuselah but just another petty game between the Anarchs vs. the Camarilla. Some fans were disappointed with it as well as they were expecting the Gehenna plot to be relevant when it's actually just the paranoia of Elders.

                        (Except Caine is driving your cab)


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nail Eater View Post

                          Ok, that explains all but one thing: why the body didn't decompose after being put out of the sarcophagus, especially if we consider the fact that the ending happens a few nights after Jack's visit to Elizabeth Dane. You may be right, it's his style. Still I find it a little trivial to end the story like that.
                          If it would have been an correctly mummified corpse it would not decompost (so fast) but iirc it whas a skeleton then yeah. But mayby this whas just a Troika rush oversight.


                          As I am from Austria I need to clarify two things.
                          First my native language is german and so please point out if the english I write is broken so I can improve.
                          Second I do not own VTMV nor any line after M20 because it is not out there and I wait for the translation.

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                          • #14
                            In my head canon Elder level Animalism and Thaumaturgy allow one to mummify Ghouls and awaken them after Torpor.


                            It is a time for great deeds!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post



                              1. I think it probably is going to. Jack doesn't care about the value of the historical artifact. It'll probably fall to pieces if moved.

                              2. I think it was a nice way of grounding the story in that it turns out it wasn't a big epic story like VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE: REDEMPTION where you personally face down a 5th generation Methuselah but just another petty game between the Anarchs vs. the Camarilla. Some fans were disappointed with it as well as they were expecting the Gehenna plot to be relevant when it's actually just the paranoia of Elders.

                              (Except Caine is driving your cab)
                              1. But it was moved. A lot. It's not easy to move the corpse out of the coffin. Then it was transported to the shore, stored a few nights in a chop shop and then move to the place with a good view at Ventrue Tower. It isn't about historical value but I think that the corpse wouldn't survive this treatment.
                              2. Ok, it's a great explanation. I like this kind of stories.


                              Warrior of the Rainbow
                              Saint among the sinners
                              Pure among the dirt
                              Loser among winners

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