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Who do you think Mithras’s True Love is?

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  • Who do you think Mithras’s True Love is?

    A. Roger de Camden (they’ve been together a while)

    B. Kemintiri (she did give him that ring)

    C. The Toreador Melusine (opposites attract...)

    D. No one (he’s mostly just out for himself)

    He’s one of my favorite characters.


    “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

  • #2
    Himself.

    Mind you, when you live 6000 years old you can build incredibly deep and intimate relationships with multiple people.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      CTPhipps Both very good points. Thanks.

      Mithras was Embraced by Veddartha/Ventrue around 1200 BCE, right?


      “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Penelope View Post
        A. Roger de Camden (they’ve been together a while)

        B. Kemintiri (she did give him that ring)

        C. The Toreador Melusine (opposites attract...)

        D. No one (he’s mostly just out for himself)

        He’s one of my favorite characters.

        D, Mithras is an old selfish megalomaniac who hijacked a religion in order to make himself a god and became convinced he actually was...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Penelope View Post
          CTPhipps Both very good points. Thanks.

          Mithras was Embraced by Veddartha/Ventrue around 1200 BCE, right?
          The date of his embrace is listed as 1258 BCE. Note that there's a fair share of controversy about who his sire was/is. Veddartha is a 4th generation vampire and it's been speculated Mithras was embraced as a 5th generation vampire before he lowered his generation through diablerie.

          The fact he met with Haqim in 121 CE in the Antediluvian's last recorded appearance gives some credit to the notion he was a diablerist, possibly committing the deed by following the tenets of the Road of Blood.

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          • #6
            Haquim fascinating! Thank you. And thanks for answering. I do think Roger and Kemintiri loved him though, even if he doesn’t love them back. (Not sure about Melusine, I think that might’ve just been a mutual fling.)


            “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

            Comment


            • #7
              He also was lovers with Queen Anne Bowesley.

              So much for vampires not having sex.



              But yes, I think vampires are very good for centuries-long polygamy.

              Lucita was deeply intimate lovers with Fatima and Anatole both after all.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                Haquim fascinating! Thank you. And thanks for answering. I do think Roger and Kemintiri loved him though, even if he doesn’t love them back. (Not sure about Melusine, I think that might’ve just been a mutual fling.)
                According to Fall of London Lord Cadmen surely does. Kemintiri is Mithras' equal though... she may love him in her own way, but we are talking about a 3.300 years old 4th generation Vampire whose ultimate goal is to kill her own sire, the antediluvian Set, who once caused Mithras himself to go mad. Also bear in mind that Mithras is a master of dominate and presence, which make him able to make others feel like they are deeply in love with him (or adoration of him).

                More importantly your post raises an interesting question: what is "love" for beings who have existed for thousands of years and think of themselves as gods? The answer is very significant for the autcome of the topic at hand here, I think.

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                • #9
                  You both raise some really good points. Thanks.


                  “It is a far far better thing I do than I have ever done...” Sidney Carton’s last line before going to the guillotine to save his True Love and her husband

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Personally, I don't think that vampires that old are capable of love
                    The blood of Caine is really not conducive to true love when every emotion can be manufactured through Dominate, Presence or the Blood Bond.

                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                    He also was lovers with Queen Anne Bowesley.

                    So much for vampires not having sex.



                    But yes, I think vampires are very good for centuries-long polygamy.

                    Lucita was deeply intimate lovers with Fatima and Anatole both after all.
                    I don't Bowesley was his love so much as he was grooming her for it.

                    Also, was Anatole Lucita's lover or just her mentor? And didn't she have a thing with Jan Pieterzoon?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post
                      Personally, I don't think that vampires that old are capable of love
                      The blood of Caine is really not conducive to true love when every emotion can be manufactured through Dominate, Presence or the Blood Bond.


                      I don't Bowesley was his love so much as he was grooming her for it.

                      Also, was Anatole Lucita's lover or just her mentor? And didn't she have a thing with Jan Pieterzoon?
                      Anatole was something quite different than a lover for Lucita. He was her morality anchor. Anatole was a self styled "country priest" with real faith (he had True Faith 1... I loathe vampires with TF but he had it) while her own sire was a prince of the church whose faith was shallow and tyrannical, besides him wanting to control Lucita in all things out of perverse "love" for her. That's why when Anatole died Lucita's humanity started slipping and she had to resort to paths.

                      That said I don't recall reading anywhere Lucita and Anatole were lovers. She and Fatima for sure but Anatole was something quite different and possibly "higher" than a lover.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HardestadtTheEvenYounger View Post
                        Also, was Anatole Lucita's lover or just her mentor? And didn't she have a thing with Jan Pieterzoon?
                        I took their relationship as lovers from Dark Ages.

                        Jan Pietszoon had a raging lust for her but it's never said if she reciprocated or even knew. I doubt it was uncommon for Elders and Neonates to have a thing for her.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Haquim View Post

                          The date of his embrace is listed as 1258 BCE. Note that there's a fair share of controversy about who his sire was/is. Veddartha is a 4th generation vampire and it's been speculated Mithras was embraced as a 5th generation vampire before he lowered his generation through diablerie.

                          The fact he met with Haqim in 121 CE in the Antediluvian's last recorded appearance gives some credit to the notion he was a diablerist, possibly committing the deed by following the tenets of the Road of Blood.
                          That's based on the fact that the write-up or a fifth-generation vampire named Maltheas gave his sire as Veddartha. But we don't know for certain that they're the same Veddartha. (*cough* Hardestadt *cough*). The Wiki says it's Sanskrit for "wise and prosperous one", so it's not a stretch to think that one of the Antediluvian's childer might have adopted the name from him. The Ventrue Antediluvian was rumored to have met Final Death before Mithras' Embrace, true, but the Tzimisce Antediluvian was rumored to have died during the Anarch revolt.

                          The diablerist theory is plausible, but unproven for now.

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                          • #14
                            1: A lengthly succession of mortals
                            2: his sire. Like, how can anyone compete for affection with the OG ventrue? The guy doesn't have a single digit stat.


                            Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JezMiller View Post

                              That's based on the fact that the write-up or a fifth-generation vampire named Maltheas gave his sire as Veddartha. But we don't know for certain that they're the same Veddartha. (*cough* Hardestadt *cough*). The Wiki says it's Sanskrit for "wise and prosperous one", so it's not a stretch to think that one of the Antediluvian's childer might have adopted the name from him. The Ventrue Antediluvian was rumored to have met Final Death before Mithras' Embrace, true, but the Tzimisce Antediluvian was rumored to have died during the Anarch revolt.

                              The diablerist theory is plausible, but unproven for now.
                              As I said there's controversy about Mithras original generation. And it's old. I can remember discussing this very same topic in 1998 on the Ex Libris Nocturnis Forums. All things considered there's no "canon" answer to Mithras original generation because the question was left unanswered on purpose. Personally I favor the idea he was 5th gen and then diablerized his way to 4th gen but I know that's not necessarily the "truth" about Mithras.

                              As for the Ventrue antediluvian i think the only antediluvians who are dead and gone are Ravnos and possibly Cappadocius (if his spectre was put to rest, that is), the others all persist in some form, Ventrue included.
                              Last edited by Haquim; 06-09-2020, 03:07 PM.

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