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Can a vampire prolong a kiss for pleasure?

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  • Wingstorm
    started a topic Can a vampire prolong a kiss for pleasure?

    Can a vampire prolong a kiss for pleasure?

    So I was reading that for most vampires, the kiss is very pleasurable for both the victim from and the kindred involved.

    Which leads to the question, can a vampire prolong a kiss for enjoyment sake?

    Maybe by drinking very little blood over a long session of time? Or taking only a trickle of blood?

    Also can/would a vampire use a slow draining, prolonged kiss for more nefarious purposes? Like to keep a blood doll, or other victim addicted? Etc?

    Edit: Oh! And can a vampire choose to take less then a BP worth of blood during a kiss/feed?
    Last edited by Wingstorm; 06-26-2020, 04:12 AM.

  • KarlB
    replied
    If we go by the V5 rules, safe drinking can take an entire scene. A scene is a variable amount of time depending on the character doing all he needed to do at a specific location. So yes, a vampire can absolutely stretch out the feeding and pleasure for a long long time if he or she wants to. Even by Revised rules, I think X amount of blood points per turn bit is more related to the *maximum* that can be drawn per turn, not a fixed amount.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joe
    replied
    Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post

    Yeah, it would, which is what makes it more complicated. Rouse checks are a probablistic price, so it's harder for an average vampire to figure out how their personal blood management works.

    Let's say three vampires of the same generation and blood potency all have either Hunger 5 or zero blood points (as appropriate to the system), and they each fully drain one human of equal size and health. The vampires are careful not to spend blood other than waking up.

    In V20&pre, all three vampires continue to rise each night as normal, at the cost of one bp. They all run out of blood the tenth time they awaken from a daysleep. Noticing the pattern? Easey-peasy. (btw, a graph of this would like a straight, sloping line.)

    In V5, there is a much larger set of possible outcomes. The likeliest outcome is the blood lasts them all about ten days. But, if one (or all!) of them roll abysmally, they might run out in five days. Or, if one (or all!) of them roll brilliantly, they could... in theory... stretch that blood out for weeks and weeks. Oh, it's unlikely, but one of them could, in theory, make it last a month or more, if their player has loaded dice. (btw Graphically, the possible outcomes makes a curve with a very, very long, slender tail.)

    Real world metaphor: imagine your landlord offered two possible schemes for your rent. The first is a standard 1000 per month. The landlord is a betting man, however, and is willing to make a special arrangement. The rent would be 2000 per month, but each month he'll flip a coin. If it's heads, you owe nothing; tails, you pay. In the long run it's the same price, but imagine making a household budget under those circumstances.

    It is much less likely that a vampire who lacks a background in the maths or sciences would figure out the Rouse check system, while the average lay vampire probably has at least a gut understanding of blood points.
    thanks for the math! I guess what I was implying is that the supernatural aspect of the Beast (as mechanically probabilistic with Rouse checks) makes it difficult for a vampire to rely on an internal blood bank. I think this is one big reason why Ive gravitated to V5, it should not be a simple math of 'blood points'. I like your analogy of the landlord; for a vampire that landlord is the Beast, and it should never be reliable when this supernatural liege has control of your hunger.

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  • Penelope
    replied
    Nosimplehiway so that’s why he got that far away look in his eye right near the end...

    Sorry. Couldn’t resist lol. But for real, that’s a really good idea. I also think extending the feeding could be a good way for a vampire to keep her Herd enraptured by the Kiss. You know, by making it feel like less hurried and mechanical.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nosimplehiway
    replied
    Originally posted by Wingstorm View Post

    Wait... When is blood "addictive" to a vampire? They need it yes. It gives great pleasure from feeding yes. But outright addictive?

    Isn't it unrealistic that a self-control roll is needed every time a vampire feeds? After all, if blood is so "addictive" to all vampires, why won't a vampire just drain every last drop of blood in a kine each time they feed?

    2/3 of all feeds would end up with a dead kine?

    How is the masquerade not breach at all?
    I can see what pang4 is going for here, and it seems quite reasonable.

    Not to get too nsfw, but irl human men sometimes may want to... extend certain activities. In human males, one might think about sports scores, or try to recite all the monarchs of England. For a vampire in a ttrpg, the equivalent might be thinking about feeding from a rotting pig, or reciting their own lineage... represented mechanically as a self-control or composure (stamina? resolve?) roll.

    The roll wouldn't be needed for every feeding, just those in which the vampire is trying to extend the feeding.

    Leave a comment:


  • Penelope
    replied
    Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post

    Yeah, it would, which is what makes it more complicated. Rouse checks are a probablistic price, so it's harder for an average vampire to figure out how their personal blood management works.

    Let's say three vampires of the same generation and blood potency all have either Hunger 5 or zero blood points (as appropriate to the system), and they each fully drain one human of equal size and health. The vampires are careful not to spend blood other than waking up.

    In V20&pre, all three vampires continue to rise each night as normal, at the cost of one bp. They all run out of blood the tenth time they awaken from a daysleep. Noticing the pattern? Easey-peasy. (btw, a graph of this would like a straight, sloping line.)

    In V5, there is a much larger set of possible outcomes. The likeliest outcome is the blood lasts them all about ten days. But, if one (or all!) of them roll abysmally, they might run out in five days. Or, if one (or all!) of them roll brilliantly, they could... in theory... stretch that blood out for weeks and weeks. Oh, it's unlikely, but one of them could, in theory, make it last a month or more, if their player has loaded dice. (btw Graphically, the possible outcomes makes a curve with a very, very long, slender tail.)

    Real world metaphor: imagine your landlord offered two possible schemes for your rent. The first is a standard 1000 per month. The landlord is a betting man, however, and is willing to make a special arrangement. The rent would be 2000 per month, but each month he'll flip a coin. If it's heads, you owe nothing; tails, you pay. In the long run it's the same price, but imagine making a household budget under those circumstances.
    That’s a good way to explain it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nosimplehiway
    replied
    Originally posted by Joe View Post
    Wouldn't that be a Rouse check??
    Yeah, it would, which is what makes it more complicated. Rouse checks are a probablistic price, so it's harder for an average vampire to figure out how their personal blood management works.

    Let's say three vampires of the same generation and blood potency all have either Hunger 5 or zero blood points (as appropriate to the system), and they each fully drain one human of equal size and health. The vampires are careful not to spend blood other than waking up.

    In V20&pre, all three vampires continue to rise each night as normal, at the cost of one bp. They all run out of blood the tenth time they awaken from a daysleep. Noticing the pattern? Easey-peasy. (btw, a graph of this would like a straight, sloping line.)

    In V5, there is a much larger set of possible outcomes. The likeliest outcome is the blood lasts them all about ten days. But, if one (or all!) of them roll abysmally, they might run out in five days. Or, if one (or all!) of them roll brilliantly, they could... in theory... stretch that blood out for weeks and weeks. Oh, it's unlikely, but one of them could, in theory, make it last a month or more, if their player has loaded dice. (btw Graphically, the possible outcomes makes a curve with a very, very long, slender tail.)

    Real world metaphor: imagine your landlord offered two possible schemes for your rent. The first is a standard 1000 per month. The landlord is a betting man, however, and is willing to make a special arrangement. The rent would be 2000 per month, but each month he'll flip a coin. If it's heads, you owe nothing; tails, you pay. In the long run it's the same price, but imagine making a household budget under those circumstances.

    It is much less likely that a vampire who lacks a background in the maths or sciences would figure out the Rouse check system, while the average lay vampire probably has at least a gut understanding of blood points.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joe
    replied
    Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post

    Of course, in V5 it becomes much more complicated.
    Wouldn't that be a Rouse check??

    Leave a comment:


  • Penelope
    replied
    Realistically, I think the Kiss would probably be orgasmic for the mortal being fed on, but for obvious reasons I don’t like getting into this much detail when we play. Most of the times the ST just handwaves it as “The person really enjoyed it.”

    Leave a comment:


  • Wingstorm
    replied
    Originally posted by pang4 View Post
    I would say you should approach this as an addict would. Blood is a drug for vampires. When you feed, it's heaven for you. Imagine the agony of having blood right there, fresh supply to sate your hunger literally flowing into your mouth, and then having to restrain that? It would be hell.

    If you wanted to restrict your feeding to make it last longer, I would call for a self-control roll every time. Probably also describe in vivid detail how their character torments themselves by dragging the feeding out.
    Wait... When is blood "addictive" to a vampire? They need it yes. It gives great pleasure from feeding yes. But outright addictive?

    Isn't it unrealistic that a self-control roll is needed every time a vampire feeds? After all, if blood is so "addictive" to all vampires, why won't a vampire just drain every last drop of blood in a kine each time they feed?

    2/3 of all feeds would end up with a dead kine?

    How is the masquerade not breach at all?

    Leave a comment:


  • pang4
    replied
    I would say you should approach this as an addict would. Blood is a drug for vampires. When you feed, it's heaven for you. Imagine the agony of having blood right there, fresh supply to sate your hunger literally flowing into your mouth, and then having to restrain that? It would be hell.

    If you wanted to restrict your feeding to make it last longer, I would call for a self-control roll every time. Probably also describe in vivid detail how their character torments themselves by dragging the feeding out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Draconis
    replied
    Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post
    Imagine if, in the real world, humans all required exactly the same amount of food and water each day, and this amount did not change from person to person, or depend on activity levels. Imagine, further, if it were impossible to eat half this much. Then, add that certain activities burn exactly one full day's worth of food, while some very similar activities do not. (eg: playing chess burns a full day's food, but playing backgammon does not) We would quickly realize, in rough terms, how "food points" work.
    See, my preferred interpretation would be that blood points are a mechanical abstraction, not something that actually exists in-universe. Like how in D&D you can't somehow measure someone's hit points before and after a rest to figure out how many hit dice they have.

    That's not the interpretation Masquerade went with, of course. But the mechanics don't have to be measurable in-universe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nosimplehiway
    replied
    Alqamar Alaswad

    Well, at least in V20&pre, the concept of a single blood point should be a fairly intuitive unit of measure.

    In the night-to-night life of vampires a single blood point is:
    • How much blood it takes to awaken each evening.
    • How much blood it takes to power certain discipline powers, and some powers require a single blood and some do not require any. The cost is not variable, and is never a "half unit". For example, Presence 1 always costs one bp; never two bp or zero bp. If you activate Presence 1 five times, it is always as tiring as awakening five times.
    • How much you can take from a single human each night, with no ill effect. Mortals regain this much each day.
    • Vampires of the same generation have the same blood pool. If they drink as much as they can hold, they will be able to awaken for exactly the same number of nights, assuming no other expenditures.
    • How much it takes to make the embrace work.
    So, blood points is an unusually easy phenomena to detect, measure, and study, in-world.

    Imagine if, in the real world, humans all required exactly the same amount of food and water each day, and this amount did not change from person to person, or depend on activity levels. Imagine, further, if it were impossible to eat half this much. Then, add that certain activities burn exactly one full day's worth of food, while some very similar activities do not. (eg: playing chess burns a full day's food, but playing backgammon does not) We would quickly realize, in rough terms, how "food points" work.

    Of course, in V5 it becomes much more complicated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alqamar Alaswad
    replied
    I remember that point about Doctor Netchurch, but... how many Kindred are going to believe the findings and publications of a Malkavian who claims to be both a doctor and an expert in hematology? Bah...

    Leave a comment:


  • Draconis
    replied
    Originally posted by Alqamar Alaswad View Post
    I guess so, because Real People in the Real World (TM) don't have BP, and Kindred do not have a concept of what a BP is. So I guess that, in case they wanted, vampires could do what you are asking, yes...
    Unfortunately, it's canon in Masquerade that people know about blood points and can measure them in-universe. They were discovered by the Malkavian scientist Dr Douglas Netchurch and the details were published back in…Revised, I think?

    What exactly has happened to his research in V5 is an open question. I'm hoping he doesn't discover the exact mechanics of Hunger and Rouse Checks, because by comparing the probabilities of messy crits and bestial fails across different actions, he could calculate exactly how many dice people had in their pools, and the difficulty values of different tasks. And I don't think the fourth wall could handle that.

    Leave a comment:

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