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Ghouls and the Traditions [Revised or really ALL versions]

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  • Ghouls and the Traditions [Revised or really ALL versions]

    What's your take on ghouls and the traditions? Seems obvious that the First Tradition must be maintained at all costs, but for example if a ghoul travels to another city for a completely non-vampire-related purpose, does the Fifth Tradition really need to apply? As long as they don't cause some issue with that city's vampire community, would the prince really give a flying frock if a ghoul quietly showed up for a couple days, attended some human-oriented convention or whatever, then left?

  • #2
    As with most of the traditions, this is only an issue in breach. That being said, I think most older vampires would not believe in a ghoul expressing the kind of independence that allows for "non-vampire" concerns.

    My thought on best practice would be a letter to someone in the domain the ghoul was visiting from the domitor briefly explaining the visit, the purpose, and the duration on the off chance that something goes awry. If they can't or won't do that, they may need to think long and hard about the cost/benefit of allowing the ghoul such freedom.

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    • #3
      Many vampires, especially older ones, are a bit paranoid. Regardless of what the ghoul said, they'd likely believe the ghoul was there on the master's orders, and that the ghoul must be "up to something."

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      • #4
        Under the Tradition of Accounting, it could be argued ghouls are an extension of their domitor and where they go, the domitor is legally present. The closest analogy I can think of in human law is coverture. So, yes, ghouls should present themselves, and a prince would be within their rights to be punish infractions.

        Of course, this doesn't mean every prince spends time looking for ghouls. Frankly, checking every visitor to a city to see if they are a ghoul is not practical. So, in practice, it is unlikely to come up.

        OTOH, if you asked a prince, "Would you want to know if a ghoul from another city were in your city?", they would say yes. And, if a ghoul is found to be up to no good, the ghoul is probably toast, and the prince would have a reasonable complaint against the domitor.

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        • #5
          Thanks for the thoughts. I guess I was thinking along the same lines. I created a ghoul NPC that was patterned after Guillermo from What We Do In The Shadows. He was allowed to travel to our city for a weekend for purposes of one of his hobbies. He was used unwittingly in a plot, but was unaware of any wrongdoing on his own part. He was there for a meetup of crossbow enthusiasts, and his sire required him to complete a sale of a couple of rare comic books in return for getting permission to go. He didn't know the comics transaction was not an innocent sale.

          Also, coincidentally while there he was attacked by a caitiff who was just passing through the city for a night on his way somewhere else. Since he had amazing reflexes he actually came out on top of that attack and staked the unwitting attacker. Once staked he had no choice but to go ahead and polish the attacker off, and of course the body decayed rapidly into dust. This took place behind the motel in which he was staying, and unfortunately a front desk employee on a smoke break inadvertently witnessed it. This caused a bit of a stir, and created a false rumor that there was a vampire hunter in town. I had a bit of fun with that.

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          • #6
            I find that any Prince who states a ghoul is a violation of the Masquerade will get himself slapped by the Elders, staked, and left out for the sun. The Traditions exist to make the lives of Elders easier and "mind controlled slaves" are the ultimate in making their lives easier.

            Mind you, I've stated that it is common policy in most domains that the ghouls of deceased Kindred are killed out of hand. There's no retirement policy for slaves.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #7
              I think ghouls travel for business (real business, not vampire business) and pleasure all the time without presenting themselves to the Prince. If you’re an investment banker on vacation with your family, you’re not gonna present yourself unless you’re also doing something Kindred related while you’re there. Just not practical, nor is it practical for the Prince to screen every tourist to see if they’re a ghoul.


              “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                I think ghouls travel for business (real business, not vampire business) and pleasure all the time without presenting themselves to the Prince. If you’re an investment banker on vacation with your family, you’re not gonna present yourself unless you’re also doing something Kindred related while you’re there. Just not practical, nor is it practical for the Prince to screen every tourist to see if they’re a ghoul.
                Mind you, if the Prince DID kill them, "whatcha gonna do" is probably the reaction.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                  Mind you, if the Prince DID kill them, "whatcha gonna do" is probably the reaction.
                  Also true lol


                  “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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                  • #10
                    Ghouls are something largely dictated by the laws of the local municipality rather than something sect wide. Not only do princes interpret the traditions, they are free to create laws. A Given city may be extremely lose or restrictive when it comes to ghouls.

                    The rule of Domain usually doesn't account for mortals passing through and you could consider ghouls mortals legaly. Ghouls should be trusted to run messages between domains. On the other hand the only city book I've read did -This organization and it's mortals are all my domain-. So it's really up to you.



                    I think it's unlikely that a ghoul visiting another city would be noticed by vampires unless they behaved in a way that would get noticed by vampires. Especially if they stick to the day.


                    Throw me/White wolf some money with Quietus: Drug Lord, Poison King
                    There's more coming soon. Pay what ya want.

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