Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ten Tips to running the Tremere in V5

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Justycar View Post
    I would recommend you another crossover book between Mage and Vampire, The Red Sign. With Tytali mages trying to undo the vampiric malediction? There you have some good ideas for a chronicle.

    https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/The_Red_Sign

    Is this still canon? There whas something about retconning the Time of Judgement Events.


    As I am from Austria I need to clarify two things.
    First my native language is german and so please point out if the english I write is broken so I can improve.
    Second I do not own VTMV nor any line after M20 because it is not out there and I wait for the translation.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Koronus View Post

      Is this still canon? There whas something about retconning the Time of Judgement Events.
      Well it's a thing that COULD happen.

      Not a thing that WILL or HAS happened.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

      Comment


      • #33


        Cult of the blood gods isn't out, so isn't canon. I asked a friend to share the text with me and... well, like, Is this really the lure of flames? It's all... Is this the legit LoF or is this the faith's crude attempt at copying the effects of a much better Tremere power? I suspect the latter. It's thematically appropriate to the CoC, but not the Tremere.


        Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
          Cult of the blood gods isn't out, so isn't canon. I asked a friend to share the text with me and... well, like, Is this really the lure of flames? It's all... Is this the legit LoF or is this the faith's crude attempt at copying the effects of a much better Tremere power? I suspect the latter. It's thematically appropriate to the CoC, but not the Tremere.
          Honestly, I've never understood why blood sorcery powered by vitae was able to create or protect against fire, which (according to House Tremere's own Hermetic theory as printed in the books) is utterly inimical to vitae.

          Comment


          • #35
            Fire damages it =/= it can't make fire. Besides, there are at least three ways to become very resistant or Immune to fire damage through disciplines (Diaomonion, Valeren, Visceraticka). If I was talking about a 'Path of Sunlight' then maybe you'd have a good point (Actually, maybe you can do that, you just can't survive using it... If I recall there is a Valeren power...)


            Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
              Fire damages it =/= it can't make fire. Besides, there are at least three ways to become very resistant or Immune to fire damage through disciplines (Diaomonion, Valeren, Visceraticka). If I was talking about a 'Path of Sunlight' then maybe you'd have a good point (Actually, maybe you can do that, you just can't survive using it... If I recall there is a Valeren power...)
              Yes, its a amalgam. Unforgiving fires of heaven something like that. Open your 3th eye and BAAM, sunlight bean.
              Last edited by blailton; 07-12-2020, 08:18 PM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post


                Cult of the blood gods isn't out, so isn't canon. I asked a friend to share the text with me and... well, like, Is this really the lure of flames? It's all... Is this the legit LoF or is this the faith's crude attempt at copying the effects of a much better Tremere power? I suspect the latter. It's thematically appropriate to the CoC, but not the Tremere.
                That's not how it works on the Onyx Path site.

                Also, wouldn't the Tremere be the guys who are copying the Church of Caine?


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                  Fire damages it =/= it can't make fire. Besides, there are at least three ways to become very resistant or Immune to fire damage through disciplines (Diaomonion, Valeren, Visceraticka). If I was talking about a 'Path of Sunlight' then maybe you'd have a good point (Actually, maybe you can do that, you just can't survive using it... If I recall there is a Valeren power...)
                  Right; I don't think those disciplines should be able to give fire immunity either, if Fortitude can't. (Well, maybe Daimonion, if it's granted by external entities instead of being part of the Kindred condition.) Since the Tremere paradigm says that fire specifically is anathema to vitae and destroys it by its presence, I'd think the whole vitae-based working would fall apart as soon as the fire showed up.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Koronus View Post

                    Is this still canon? There whas something about retconning the Time of Judgement Events.
                    It is a good chronicle and very inspirational, it does not matter that the events have occurred or not in the current metaplot. It could be even possible that the mages achieved the ritual and then the new human reborn succumbed to the beast, became a widenslainte or something worse, the ritual of the Red Sign had not a cannonical end, it was lovecraftian horror with lovecraftian conquences.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Draconis View Post

                      Right; I don't think those disciplines should be able to give fire immunity either, if Fortitude can't. (Well, maybe Daimonion, if it's granted by external entities instead of being part of the Kindred condition.) Since the Tremere paradigm says that fire specifically is anathema to vitae and destroys it by its presence, I'd think the whole vitae-based working would fall apart as soon as the fire showed up.
                      Fortitude, In at least 4/5 editions of modern V:tM (It does come with the 5th one if you pick it) offers universal resistance to everything, including fire and sun. I think your argument here is more than a bit silly. Especially since its built as a reaction to a headcanon only you seem to have.


                      Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        ​1. Bent, Bowed, but Unbroken
                        "Indeed, in many ways, they are now more powerful than they were before. The organization has always been held back by its strict control. New chantries, members, and rituals are now being created all the time."

                        You can of course go with this, but it would not seem like the logical conclusion of the changes presented to me.
                        Many Chantries, Tremere and rituals lost or missing and not being replaced - more like it.

                        Their organisation did not hold them back - it MADE them.

                        2. My brother against me, my brother and me against the world.
                        That would be a reasonable reaction, but ...
                        In my reading the Fall of a dictator, one party system or autocratic system usually leads to either a new ruler (group) just taking over/recreating the old system - or some degree of civil war/infighting

                        3. You may have created us, man of evil, but we are free
                        yes? - I liked my Tremere more working within an evil system rather than fighting/rejecting it outright

                        Working/surviving/thriving in the pyramid was their stick. Its like Nosferatu not being ugly anymore.

                        4. The Tremere no longer have a monopoly on Blood Sorcery - I agree
                        "This means that while the Tremere have not lost any power" NO They absolutely have
                        "they must develop alternate avenues to enforce their will as they face something they've never had before: competition." Yes

                        5. Blood Sorcery has changed
                        I did not see them so static. They would embrace/copy/steal any magical knowledge that worked and provided power - same as ever.

                        6. Know the Players, Know the Masters
                        I like that interpretation. I also like the one by MyWifeIsScary. Both work.

                        7. Vienna was almost certainly an inside job - agreed

                        8. The Tremere's enemies are weakened too - mostly agreed
                        Who does not hate the Tremere?

                        9. The Pyramid is smaller, not gone - true
                        We have no information how that works for the moment.

                        10. Now is the time to seize power
                        Now is the time to keep your head low and hope your group does not get genocided.
                        Last edited by mfalkenb; 07-13-2020, 08:02 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          In the vast majority of cities the Tremere, or a House of Tremere, probably does retain the monopoly on blood magic. If the splitting of the clan isn't a facade, setting up Chantry 2 for the guys that "want to defect" is going to happen a lot less; Either the whole chantry converts (and purges dissent if this is a legitimate split) or the whole chantry stands firm. In the (rare, if you're assuming the split is real) cities where there are two houses, they've almost certainly running a duopoly complete with price fixes and the like, and are both working to curb third party mages. In the case of either Fake-split or Real-split, there aren't that many Tremere in a city, it's the rare city to have 8 in a chantry*; Assuming the average chantry has three or four members, and you split that, how impressive is the other party going to be? How does the new smaller house compete with the larger house for resources?


                          (*like, maybe it's possible for your chantry to have a lord and pointifex also residing within it giving you 10... that'd be interesting)

                          There are three realistic scenarios for regions with different houses:
                          A-They made arrangements before the split and they're genuine about the split but, as a clan of smart people, decided on mutual best interests.
                          B-They made arrangements before the split which is really a facade to deal with the Tremere's bad reputation as a monopoly (Lowly Apprentices are not aware of this fact, and many elders joyfully use 'the threat of competition' to increase productivity)
                          C-House Carna (because it shares a sect with the mainline Tremere) was destroyed utterly by internal conflict which obviously didn't happen.

                          Either way, it'd end up with price fixing.


                          Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                            Fortitude, In at least 4/5 editions of modern V:tM (It does come with the 5th one if you pick it) offers universal resistance to everything, including fire and sun. I think your argument here is more than a bit silly. Especially since its built as a reaction to a headcanon only you seem to have.
                            Huh, I thought Fortitude in V20 couldn't soak aggravated damage (such as from fire)? I must be misremembering how the mechanics work. If Fortitude can do it, then yeah it's fine for other disciplines to do the same.

                            The point about fire and sunlight being anathema to vitae is listed as part of the Tremere paradigm in DAV20 core (it's in published material, not a headcanon), which is why I think Tremere sorcery specifically shouldn't be able to manipulate it—isn't the whole point of an Ascension-style paradigm, mechanically, that it makes some things easier, some things harder, and some things impossible?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                              In the vast majority of cities the Tremere, or a House of Tremere, probably does retain the monopoly on blood magic. If the splitting of the clan isn't a facade, setting up Chantry 2 for the guys that "want to defect" is going to happen a lot less; Either the whole chantry converts (and purges dissent if this is a legitimate split) or the whole chantry stands firm.
                              I think the competition comes less from other Tremere houses (since I agree it seems unlikely for multiple houses to exist in a single city) and more from the Banu Haqim sorcerers now being an official part of the Camarilla, with their own brand of blood magic. They've been arranging this since before the fall of the Pyramid and were in a perfect place to take advantage of the chaos to gain influence.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                That's quite the considerable misremembrance; The main drive to get Fortitude is because it's the only realistic way to soak the Banes of Faith,Fire and Sunlight. (The second reason is because more soak is good and sometimes fortitude is cheaper than stamina, and the third reason is that claws couldn't be soaked by stamina after V1 and armour is shit and...) Gangrel have Fortitude rather than a different physical for the sole reason that sometimes their shelter goes to shit and they're touching sunlight...


                                The Hermetic paradigm is like rule 34: If it exists, there's magic for it. As above, so below. It's why this setting has a lot of fun with the divide between Actual machines and Fucking Magic and grants ancient vampires technomagic. If werewolves can worship a Stag, vampires working fire magic isn't really a concern. (ok, that's not a perfect argument, I'll add more)

                                I believe somewhere I read that Fire is Aggravated to everybody because something, something, plasma burns the body and the spirit... Vampires aren't exactly weak to fire, it's just that they don't have protections from it like they do from gunshots or boiling water, and the Beast knows this. Perhaps fire disrupts the magic that keeps the vampire together. Vampires are essentially "weak" to fire because of flaws in the way the magic that keeps them animated work; Fire is not a curse like the weakness to sunlight vampires experience, it's just something their body is weak too, and because of this there are ways to fix this problem and become immune to fire, whilst there are no ways to go against the curse and become immune to sunlight (without removing the advantages of the vampiric state at least).

                                In short:
                                Vampires are weak to fire because the properties of fire also harm the spiritual part of someone. Not because of a curse. The beast fears fire because it knows this.
                                If something exists, there is magic for it.

                                Therefore; There's nothing metaphysically wrong with vampires casting fire spells.


                                Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X