Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

destruction rates for vampires per age category

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Pleiades
    replied
    Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
    I suspect in many cities the sabbat elders encourage a high ancillae mortality rate. Between more dangerous mission assignments and being attractive monomancy targets those that remain alive frequently turn against the sect's elders and lose.
    doubtful,
    ancillae are already rare in the sect, and the elders need them,

    while elders would definitely arrange the death of troublesome ones on occasion,
    "encouraging" high mortality rates is another story, one that would hurt them more than benefit them

    there are better ways to keep ancillae in line anyway,
    the vinculum being the best option, elders usually have the necessary connections to arrange certain ancillae to be vinculumed to them,
    or they could just railroad the ancillae with pointless work to prevent them from gaining fame and support,
    or just give them enough reward for their work that they don't require more

    this is canon btw, Archons and Templars (revised), well...not canon anymore

    outside of that, you can make up your own methods to keep the ancillae in line (path of enlightenment, staining their reputation, taking support roles like Priscus etc)

    Leave a comment:


  • Pleiades
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Fox View Post

    That is certainly possible, but if something like 90% of fledglings don't make it to being released (your scenario), I think the Prince would generate a lot of unnecessary anger if they punish failures that much and ask for more favors to simply produce one childe that is actually released as a neonate. And assuming there are certain clans more likely to experience problems with their new fledglings (like Malkavians because who knows how bad the derangement will be), it would particularly punish those clans harder.

    So in the end I think a standard of only counting childer that make it to being released is the better one.

    If the destruction of fledglings were much, much lower, then the Prince could make the argument that a failure was due to the actions or inabilities of the sire, and it wouldn't destabilize things much. But at 90%, this affects almost everyone, and I think it would cause lots of problems for the Prince to be too greedy.

    The Prince might demand reasonable evidence like proof of destruction in order to make sure someone isn't secretly using the policy as a means to sire more childer. Or that there is only a limited number of retries (say two or three times).
    to be more specific, 90% death rate in the modern nights due to the frequency of sect wars, lupine raids and resurgence of imbued in revised, and the SI in v5

    if memory serves me right, Princes usually ignored illegal embraces and "mass embraces" during war.
    at least, until the dust settled (though I doubt the prince would mind a few illegal embraces, the few that survived, sticking around after the war),

    so, in this case, I'd agree with you, the Prince would have to compromise,
    but there's only so much compromise a prince can afford before their city turns into a pseudo-anarch state or, worse, a pseudo-sabbat state where embrace regulations are lax, and youngsters aren't held accountable for masquerade breaches

    considering the sabbat is still the losing sect, it's safe to assume the camarilla ways, no matter how restrictive, are still the right ways
    Last edited by Pleiades; 08-04-2020, 04:19 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Black Fox
    replied
    Originally posted by Pleiades View Post
    nah, that would be closer to 90% in the modern nights,

    and I disagree with the prince allowing you to re-embrace for free
    That is certainly possible, but if something like 90% of fledglings don't make it to being released (your scenario), I think the Prince would generate a lot of unnecessary anger if they punish failures that much and ask for more favors to simply produce one childe that is actually released as a neonate. And assuming there are certain clans more likely to experience problems with their new fledglings (like Malkavians because who knows how bad the derangement will be), it would particularly punish those clans harder.

    So in the end I think a standard of only counting childer that make it to being released is the better one.

    If the destruction of fledglings were much, much lower, then the Prince could make the argument that a failure was due to the actions or inabilities of the sire, and it wouldn't destabilize things much. But at 90%, this affects almost everyone, and I think it would cause lots of problems for the Prince to be too greedy.

    The Prince might demand reasonable evidence like proof of destruction in order to make sure someone isn't secretly using the policy as a means to sire more childer. Or that there is only a limited number of retries (say two or three times).

    Leave a comment:


  • CajunKhan
    replied
    Well the unspoken reason that Ventrue hide their embraces for long periods of time is they want their progeny to be conservative, cautious, and unemotional. Everything that makes children annoying is doubly annoying to the Ventrue, so they want their progeny to only be seen in public once they are utterly stiff. They aren't doing it to hide creating progeny from the Prince, as doing so is both dangerous and lacking in decorum and respect for the rules.

    Leave a comment:


  • MyWifeIsScary
    replied
    I suspect in many cities the sabbat elders encourage a high ancillae mortality rate. Between more dangerous mission assignments and being attractive monomancy targets those that remain alive frequently turn against the sect's elders and lose.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pleiades
    replied
    Originally posted by Koronus View Post

    Except for Ventrue. The most of those keep their embraces hidden for some decades until they think they are showable to society and then show the prince for the first time their child and the rest of the Ventrue. Then after all the ventrue said what mistakes it maid, it is put back into hiding (unless the sire thought he fucked to much up and destroy it) and let it out again once they think they are suitable for sociity.
    you still need permission,
    if your illegal embrace is found out, you'll be sanctioned
    if your illegal embrace is presented to the prince, you'll be sanctioned

    fortunately, princes usually allow you to get a permission for embrace which you can then use whenever you feel like it,

    so, as long as you have that permission, you can keep your embrace secret all you want,
    but don't expect the prince to not keep tabs on you and your kid,
    the prince still has to enforce the traditions on vampires in the city,
    and your childe, no matter how secret, is no exception,
    and as long as the childe hasn't been presented to the prince, the sire is held accountable for their mistakes

    Leave a comment:


  • Koronus
    replied
    Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

    nah, that would be closer to 90% in the modern nights,

    and I disagree with the prince allowing you to re-embrace for free,
    unless you are some kind of very old vampire that doesn't need the prince's permission, the prince alllowing you to "replace" your failed embrace would mean they're either expecting more favours from you or they are unaware of the embrace,
    the latter would make them a rather weak prince, one that is likely to get ashed soon
    Except for Ventrue. The most of those keep their embraces hidden for some decades until they think they are showable to society and then show the prince for the first time their child and the rest of the Ventrue. Then after all the ventrue said what mistakes it maid, it is put back into hiding (unless the sire thought he fucked to much up and destroy it) and let it out again once they think they are suitable for sociity.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pleiades
    replied
    Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
    Fledglings: I think this is quite high. Not every person is cut out to be a vampire and can make the transition. I think a high number of these are destroyed by their sires before they are even released (and if so, they don't count against the Prince permitting them to embrace, they get to do it again to find a childe who can hack it). Others end up destroying themselves by walking into the sun, or fall prey to hunters or supernatural predators. I think perhaps anywhere from 20-50%. Higher rate of destruction in the Sabbat than Camarilla. Varies wildly between clans.
    nah, that would be closer to 90% in the modern nights,

    and I disagree with the prince allowing you to re-embrace for free,
    unless you are some kind of very old vampire that doesn't need the prince's permission, the prince alllowing you to "replace" your failed embrace would mean they're either expecting more favours from you or they are unaware of the embrace,
    the latter would make them a rather weak prince, one that is likely to get ashed soon

    Leave a comment:


  • Legendre
    replied
    I'll post something more substantive in a day or three, but for now I just want to say thank you for posting this. Ruminations and speculation about vampire ecology -- and other pseudo-academic exercises like this -- are one of the main reasons why I joined these boards in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrHappyAngry
    replied
    Ya, the mortality rate for the young is probably pretty high. A huge amount probably can't deal with the whole drinking blood to survive and being damned and just greet the sun. It's probably not as many as in earlier time periods, since there's a lot more people who aren't religious today, so the whole damned thing doesn't carry as much weight as it used to. Another big chunk would screw up somehow and be offed by their sire or the Cam for traditions violations. Not too mention how many shovelheads eat it their first night as a vampire in the Sabbat. Then there's also feeding screw ups. As my group's learned, you might be more badass than your average mortal, but when they outnumber you it can spell big time trouble. The fledgling who thinks they're hot shit now and can deal with a group of mortals is in for a surprise. It's probably higher than 50% who don't make it past fledgling.

    Once you get more settled into the lifestyle of preying on humans, mistakes become rarer, you always have an escape route and you have the power to back it up when things do go wrong. The rest of the numbers you gave are probably about right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pnizzle
    replied
    Isolation counts as a survival technique. It works for locusts.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X