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WIR 5E Anarchs

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    • The Brujah Council

      One thing I've noticed about V5 is the fact that it often takes concepts that were forgotten or discarded and then proceeds to make them integral parts of the setting. I'm not saying that's all on Matthew Dawkins but has a lot to do with his particular ethos. He loves taking throw away characters and concepts then reviving them to importance they never had in their previous embodiments.

      For example, the Brujah Council that's alluded to in this Cuban section. The Brujah Council was extinct from the start of V:TM. The Cold War was over by the time the ink was dry on the original green marble book. Instead, the Brujah Council was just a throwaway line about what Baba Yaga had killed to take over Russia. Except it turned out to be WEREWOLVES who ended up making the most of Baba Yaga (and then Baba Yaga was killed by a Niktuku in an unrelated V:TM adventure--pleasing no one).

      However, with the rise of the Russian Federation and Putin 2.0, the Brujah Council is suddenly back in business and communist Anarchs are now something interesting to explore in the Modern Era. The Soviet Union had a history of, like the CIA, arming insurgent and revolutionary groups worldwide. Many of which were the kind of firebrand anti-capitalists that inspire anarchists and communists alike among the undead. Or get co-opted by white middle class college kids with too much free time on their hands.

      Seeing the Brujah Council as potentially funding the Anarch Revolution worldwide is an interesting twist--albeit the kinds of governments it funds today might not be the same ones that Salvador thinks it will.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • It is a good use of resources in the lore, and the writers put it to good use.

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        • Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
          The Brujah Council
          Seeing the Brujah Council as potentially funding the Anarch Revolution worldwide is an interesting twist--albeit the kinds of governments it funds today might not be the same ones that Salvador thinks it will.
          This is, uhh... painful to read.

          There's no incentive or ability for Russian Brujah to finance anarch movements. Idealism in the Soviet union died with Lenin and the union forgot about an international communist revolution and went for socialism in one state, IE Stalin wanted the USSR under his control and allied buffer states around him to protect... himself. During Lenin's rule one single type of housing was built for everyone. During Stalin's rule there were two, one for the people and one for 'the communist elite', if that's any indication of how much the USSR degenerated. Modern Russia is known by the populace to be ruled by Oligarchs. They're not under dellusions of fair democracy like the US, they know they're being ruled by Oligarchs.

          So with all that in mind, why would the Brujah council be making international moves? What would be the point? Modern communists aren't pining for a repeat of the USSR disaster, and russian information warfare isn't at all in favour of the left wing. If the BC had grudges with elders outside of russia (and why would they? They're all relatively young right?) how would they find foreign vampires and organize campaigns against them? Vampires don't benefit from left wing policies. What do the BC get out of doing... whatever it is they're doing?

          The important thing is that Information warfare is good for vampires. Patisanship and fascism and all that lovely stuff is great for vampires, Camarilla and anarchs alike. Maybe it's some long distance favour trading, but that's not really something that needs the mystery of "The Brujah Council". They're not exactly avenging Carthage here and they're not likely to restore a USSR-type system.


          Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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          • I think you are forgetting
            (a) in the real world the cold war continued until the Soviet Union collapsed, and it did not end when Stalin died.
            (b) Vampires can create their own justifications to fight each other when those reasons would not otherwise exist, and this is a large part of the jyhad.

            Which is to say, the Brujah Council would have been fucking with the Camarilla, and the Camarilla would have been fucking with the Council, because
            (a) the Cold War went on for about 80 years,
            (b) vampires are assholes,
            (c) it makes for good stories.


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            • The support of the liberal Anarch Movement wouldn't necessarily be intended to make Californian style Anarchs the end goal or to protect kine in any way. The Brujah Council in this book is idealistic, but their ideals concern kindred, to the exclusion of kine. I assume that they don't want mortal communism per se, but police states, public or private, where kine don't ask questions when other kine disappear, which means that kindred have plenty of food and the masquerade is secure. They're probably looking at cities falling to the Second Inquisition and blaming all surviving sects for not controlling the intelligence services.

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              • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post

                This is, uhh... painful to read.
                I'm sorry to ruin what was obviously a very well thought out and interesting post but it falls apart very quickly at one observation: "Why would you think the Brujah Council do something out of idealism?"

                They would support world wide Anarch revolution for the explicit purpose of expanding their global power base and attacking the Camarilla's power base. The idea that Brujah would stop the expansion of their power base at the Soviet Union's borders is ludicrous when they have the apparatus of a global superpower at their beck and call. The elimination of other vampires only benefits their goal of expanding their power base and privilege globally. The idea that any vampire would be "content" at a mere Princedom when they could rule nations is silly.

                Also, some Anarchs seek more freedom. Other Anarchs seek far more draconian rulership that makes the Camarilla look like a party. The Anarchs are united by their hatred of the Camarilla--nothing more.
                Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-17-2020, 08:35 PM.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • I've been partially fascinated by the Brujah Council when the game came out because it was never clear what it was about. So I think it's great that it's been finally addressed.

                  However, I think they made a mistake by tying the Brujah Council in with the Anarchs because there was zero connection between the Brujah Council and the Anarchs in the original games. I don't remember it mentioned in any of the By Night books or the Anarch's Cookbook. Furthermore, what little we knew about the Brujah Council indicated it was antithetical to the ideals of the Anarchs. Anarchs were about trying to establish some kind of freedom from the elders. The Brujah Council was never about that. It was about the Brujah dominating the other clans. And while that obviously appeals to Brujah who make up a lot of the Anarchs, I don't see any of the other clans (or Caitiff) among Anarchs being enthusiastic about it.

                  "Council" translated into Russian is "Soviet". So Brujah Council is a just an English speaking way of saying Brujah Soviet. That makes the connection between human Communism and the Brujah Council which makes complete sense given the history we were given about the Council - both its origins and its demise were tied to the existence of Communist rule in Russia.

                  While there had to be something different about the rule of the Brujah Council than the standard Camarilla, it didn't seem like it was a different sect. And certainly not a part of the Anarch movement.

                  Therefore, I imagined that the Brujah Council was just a means for the Brujah clan to dominate local and regional Camarilla politics inside the Soviet Union. Unlike everywhere else where the Brujah clan was split into different factions, this group of Brujah were united in a council... just like how the Bolsheviks dominated the original Petrograd Soviet. And probably equally tyrannical. I imagined that this united group of Brujah exploited the Bolsehvik takeover to destroy the power bases of the other clans, and probably slaughtered a lot of the other vampires from those clans. I got the impression that the Brujah Justicars used the Soviet Union as their base of operations just like Petrodon and Xavier operated in North America. Probably because all the Brujah Justicars of that era already had Slavic names. Furthermore, the Camarilla already had an institution similar to a council - the Conclaves. And if the Brujah Council was a counterpart to the Bolsheviks, than the Conclaves could be used by them like the Bolsheviks used the soviets - as a means to entrench themselves in power. A semi-perpetual Conclave, dominated by the Brujah Council and lead by a Brujah Justicar could do just that. Until the entire leadership of the clan was gobbled up.

                  Now all of this was in my head instead of detailed in the game. But it made sense. It explained how the Brujah could dominate the cities of the Soviet Union, by a very different thing from the rest of the Camarilla, yet not be an actual opposing sect.

                  I don't know how accurate my suppositions were, but I think it'd be closer than this new revelation that these were supposed to be Anarchs. But I'd be very interested in hearing from any of the original developers and writers of the Vampire game line what they intended when they created the Brujah Council in the first place.

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                  • For me, the Brujah Council being an Anarch revolt makes perfect sense.

                    What else would the "vampire politics reflecting real life" be other than Brujah Anarchs overthrowing Ventrue and Toreador Royalists, only to prove to be EVEN WORSE dictators?

                    I mean, that seems a perfectly plausible Anarch revolution result.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
                      However, I think they made a mistake by tying the Brujah Council in with the Anarchs.....
                      We don't know if the Soviet Brujah considered themselves Anarchs, or as a part of the supposed Anarch movement. We do know they did not consider themselves to be part of the Anarch Free States. The label of Anarch was stuck on them by the Camarilla, and it might only have been applied out of spite and after the collapse of the USSR and the disappearance of the ruling Soviet Brujah.

                      And lately the Camarilla calls everything aside from themselves "Anarch."

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                      • Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

                        We don't know if the Soviet Brujah considered themselves Anarchs, or as a part of the supposed Anarch movement. We do know they did not consider themselves to be part of the Anarch Free States. The label of Anarch was stuck on them by the Camarilla, and it might only have been applied out of spite and after the collapse of the USSR and the disappearance of the ruling Soviet Brujah.

                        And lately the Camarilla calls everything aside from themselves "Anarch."
                        A note that the term Anarch seems synonamous among Kindred with revolutionary as well. My take on the Brujah Council they're Anarchs the same way the Sabbat are. An organization born from the original Anarch movement.

                        I think the Brujah Council would support Anarch movements around the world as "useful fools" who undermined Camarilla power.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                        • Why would they be useful at all? I'm living in the former soviet union now; if i was a vampire, how could I possibly mess with kindred outside my region and what motivation would i have to do that? I have problems far closer to home, why would I engage in conflict with externals? There's points to be made among the mortal populace: An intolerant and devisive society who fears the Other is a maleable one, but how does one get offensive here?

                          The Camarilla is 'us', the anarchs are 'me'. The Camarilla might see everyone else as Anarchs but the Anarchs hardly see each other as brethren because anarchs have multiple opposing ideas..
                          This 'Brujah council' is likely to inspire it's own 'anarchs'.


                          Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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                          • Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                            Why would they be useful at all? I'm living in the former soviet union now; if i was a vampire, how could I possibly mess with kindred outside my region and what motivation would i have to do that?
                            1. Paying for other Kindred's activities.

                            2. Money, power. It's an international economy now and wasn't far from it in the years before. The Kindred being all restricted to one single city is something that I've never much cared for. A Ventrue's business interests should be able to affect Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, and the entirety of national interests.

                            [quote]I have problems far closer to home, why would I engage in conflict with externals? There's points to be made among the mortal populace: An intolerant and devisive society who fears the Other is a maleable one, but how does one get offensive here?[/iquote]

                            It's established with the Sabbat vs. Camarilla to start. The simple fact is that vampires are all rivals and the Brujah Council represents a third sect that threatens the other two with their own groups. Like the Kuei Jin, they are an existential threat to the Camarilla and need to be destroyed. Just like the Brujah Council know the Camarilla is the same. Otherwise, they will expand out and consume the other.

                            Territory, domain, money.

                            Vampires do not share power.

                            The Camarilla is 'us', the anarchs are 'me'. The Camarilla might see everyone else as Anarchs but the Anarchs hardly see each other as brethren because anarchs have multiple opposing ideas..
                            Yes, exactly, and the Brujah Council undoubtedly cares little about their ideologies beyond, "I want to blow up the Prince." The Brujah Council will give you the semtex. It doesn't need to know why you do it and honestly doesn't care.

                            They just want to place their own guy in his place.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                            • Before I move on to the next section of the book, there is no longer a Brujah Council or Soviet Brujah, as a real group. There are some survivors, but they are scattered about. However, prior to 1990, the Council existed. And it would have been screwing with the West to disrupt the Camarilla. Now it will just come down to how bored Princes are, and how much power they possess.So its not what they Soviet Brujah would do as what they did do, back in the day.

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                              • Changing topics and actually okay with conceding to MyWifeIsScary (he has local knowledge), I'm going to say that I think it is interesting to see what cities have fallen to the Anarchs. There's some fairly big names this time around and they no longer are just jokes.

                                Cities we know have fallen:

                                * Washington DC: Vitel may be an AINO but you don't have to follow the system when you're one of the most famous powerful vampires in the world.

                                * Berlin: Because the Camarilla thought the previous Prince was too soft, they put in a hardliner and lost the city. I imagine they blame the previous Prince.

                                * Las Vegas: I actually think it would be best to make Therese the Baron of Vegas because she's able to embody both sides of the city.

                                * Indianpolis: Both an Anarch city AND a Ministry city.


                                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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