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  • #31
    Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

    Why is Cyberpunk 2077 so hyped? Isn’t based on a obscure tabletop game,

    Cyberpunk 2020 is not obscure in the tabletop community... As Phipps said, It's about as Obscure as Call of Cthulu, it's the father of all Cyberpunk games. Many people consider Shadowrun to be the deritivative less creative younger brother of 2020.

    CDprojekt Red is beloved by the serious Gamer community, they're one of the last developers out there which don't have excessive monitization processes. No microtransactions, no crappy DLC... and the Quality of the Witcher Games speak for themselves... Witcher 3 is rightly considered one of the very best games of the last Decade, easily in the top 10, and many people's number 1 (Dark Souls is my own number 1).

    The hype around Cyberpunk and the videos showing what you're going to be able to do in that game... the Freedom of choice in it... Hell, the main story can just end without you being involved, based on certain actions and descisions you make in the game...

    As for Bloodlines... It too is a Triple A game, it's got a full budget behind it, it's not meant to be small, it's meant to be a big grand release. Being pushed back is par for the course and a good thing, because it means they're tweaking things further, and tightening down on it. As Miyamoto, the father of Mario has said "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad,"

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Orphan81 View Post


      Cyberpunk 2020 is not obscure in the tabletop community... As Phipps said, It's about as Obscure as Call of Cthulu, it's the father of all Cyberpunk games. Many people consider Shadowrun to be the deritivative less creative younger brother of 2020.

      CDprojekt Red is beloved by the serious Gamer community, they're one of the last developers out there which don't have excessive monitization processes. No microtransactions, no crappy DLC... and the Quality of the Witcher Games speak for themselves... Witcher 3 is rightly considered one of the very best games of the last Decade, easily in the top 10, and many people's number 1 (Dark Souls is my own number 1).

      The hype around Cyberpunk and the videos showing what you're going to be able to do in that game... the Freedom of choice in it... Hell, the main story can just end without you being involved, based on certain actions and descisions you make in the game...

      As for Bloodlines... It too is a Triple A game, it's got a full budget behind it, it's not meant to be small, it's meant to be a big grand release. Being pushed back is par for the course and a good thing, because it means they're tweaking things further, and tightening down on it. As Miyamoto, the father of Mario has said "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad,"

      oh god not another one that qoute's miyamoto. I have been reading in it every article i have seen today because halo infinite got delayed

      Couldn't agree more about the points you made about cyberpunk but i don't believe bloodlines 2 is meant to be a triple a game. It's a small studio with a small budget. Let's hope they can deliver a good double a game.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

        Its not a year also, since it's been delayed to first quarter 2021.

        Isn't the delay to 2021? Correct me if i am wrong but i dont believe they metionend a quarter

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post

          Why is Cyberpunk 2077 so hyped? Isn’t based on a obscure tabletop game,
          It's not really about the franchise but about who is making the game. CDPR really could have picked any franchise or even a new ip as their next game and it still would have been the most anticipated game of the year. And to be fair the footage they have showed so far has been pretty impressive. Not mindblowing but enough to entice you to buy the game. The footage combined with the studio behind it and the things they have promised (which most people would believe cause they are CDPR) makes it the biggest game of the year.

          If only they were the ones that were making bloodlines 2
          Last edited by blackshade; 08-12-2020, 04:40 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Orphan81 View Post


            Cyberpunk 2020 is not obscure in the tabletop community... As Phipps said, It's about as Obscure as Call of Cthulu, it's the father of all Cyberpunk games. Many people consider Shadowrun to be the deritivative less creative younger brother of 2020.
            I don't know who those people are, but they couldn't possibly be further from the truth. Cyberpunk 2020 has managed to leave virtually none of its DNA in tabletop gaming. Neither its mechanics nor its setting led to any innovations.

            Shadowrun, at the bare minimum, popularized dicepools, which majorly influenced the development of Vampire the Masquerade. I'm also not sure what relation you can draw between Shadowrun and Cyberpunk2020 that wouldn't be just genre conventions.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
              https://www.vg247.com/2020/08/11/vam...-2-2021-delay/
              Bad sign. Development must be a mess. We do not even know if It will be out in Q1,Q2 or Q3.
              10/08/2020:


              11/08/2020:

              Red flags all around.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Kammerer View Post

                I don't know who those people are, but they couldn't possibly be further from the truth. Cyberpunk 2020 has managed to leave virtually none of its DNA in tabletop gaming. Neither its mechanics nor its setting led to any innovations.

                Shadowrun, at the bare minimum, popularized dicepools, which majorly influenced the development of Vampire the Masquerade. I'm also not sure what relation you can draw between Shadowrun and Cyberpunk2020 that wouldn't be just genre conventions.


                Cyberpunk 2020 DEFINED those genre conventions. Runners, losing bits of yourself as you by more cyberware in an objective essence/psychosis fashion. Much like the very idea of vampires having elaborate secret societies with rulers by city and specific bloodlines with unique powers can be laid entirely at the feet of Masquerade. Much of what we consider "Base" urban fantasy or horror was first defined in masquerade.

                If you have cyberpunk in your game it probably takes ideas that were first defined in cyberpunk 2020. If you have it in your fiction it probably has ideas first defined in cyberpunk 2020.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Lian View Post
                  Cyberpunk 2020 DEFINED those genre conventions.


                  Though for posterity it must be noted that the order of releases is Cyberpunk 2013 (1988), Shadowrun 1E (1989), Cyberpunk 2020 (1990). So they are more of parallel evolutions.

                  Much like the very idea of vampires having elaborate secret societies with rulers by city and specific bloodlines with unique powers can be laid entirely at the feet of Masquerade. Much of what we consider "Base" urban fantasy or horror was first defined in masquerade.
                  Interview With A Vampire, Shadowrun, and, crucially for urban fantasy, Bordertown, all predate Vampire the Masquerade.
                  Last edited by Kammerer; 08-12-2020, 05:19 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post
                    https://www.vg247.com/2020/08/11/vam...-2-2021-delay/
                    Bad sign. Development must be a mess. We do not even know if It will be out in Q1,Q2 or Q3.

                    The world is a mess right now. I'm sure development is chugging along fine, but these times are difficult for everyone. If they need a little more time to get the product out, we can wait. Paradox has been putting out good stuff for a long time, plus the early looks seem great, so I'm not worried.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Kammerer View Post

                      I don't know who those people are, but they couldn't possibly be further from the truth. Cyberpunk 2020 has managed to leave virtually none of its DNA in tabletop gaming. Neither its mechanics nor its setting led to any innovations.

                      Shadowrun, at the bare minimum, popularized dicepools, which majorly influenced the development of Vampire the Masquerade. I'm also not sure what relation you can draw between Shadowrun and Cyberpunk2020 that wouldn't be just genre conventions.

                      Guess you're just going to ignore the massive influence Mike Pondsmith, one of the first people of Color in RPGs, the creator of Cyberpunk 2020 has had over the entire industry, how Cyberpunk influenced freaking VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE ITSELF so much so they actually had a cross-over... But yeah man, you keep saying blatant lies.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by blackshade View Post

                        It's not really about the franchise but about who is making the game. CDPR really could have picked any franchise or even a new ip as their next game and it still would have been the most anticipated game of the year. And to be fair the footage they have showed so far has been pretty impressive. Not mindblowing but enough to entice you to buy the game. The footage combined with the studio behind it and the things they have promised (which most people would believe cause they are CDPR) makes it the biggest game of the year.

                        If only they were the ones that were making bloodlines 2
                        Cyberpunk 2077 has been in development for about 8 years. We should be glad Bloodlines 2 is having a much more reasonable schedule.

                        Re: Mike Pondsmith

                        Mike Pondsmith is very open about the fact that the developers of White Wolf have been a bit cagey about that he created CP2020 as a blender of all the things that he loved and put them in a blender: Neuromancer [later installed], Bubblegum Crisis, Max Headroom [which was good, honest!], Mad Max, Hardwired, Akira, and so on.

                        What Mike managed to achieve was create a living world around all these various cyberpunk concepts with answering questions about, "How do megacorps function in a divided United States of America?" Creating the concepts of a bunch of mercenaries doing jobs for corporations as a regular thing (versus the one-off job in Neuromancer) and so on.

                        It's sort of like "Cthulhu existed before Call of Cthulhu but the concepts of a bunch of 1920s investigators fighting cults, while having some origins in HPL's work, was mostly made by the people at Chaosium--particularly with the idea of all the various monsters existing in one world."
                        Last edited by CTPhipps; 08-12-2020, 05:31 PM.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Orphan81 View Post
                          Guess you're just going to ignore the massive influence Mike Pondsmith, one of the first people of Color in RPGs, the creator of Cyberpunk 2020 has had over the entire industry
                          That would be the influence of Mike Pondsmith, not of the game he made.
                          how Cyberpunk influenced freaking VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE ITSELF so much so they actually had a cross-over... But yeah man, you keep saying blatant lies.
                          Do you mean the articles in White Wolf Magazine #36, 37, & 38, or "Night's Edge", a third party brand scrubbed hack for Cyberpunk 2020? Either way, that's not a sign of the lasting legacy of Cyberpunk 2020 in tabletop RPGs. I wasn't saying "Cyberpunk2020 is an unknown game no one ever cared for".

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                          • #43
                            Seriously, the idea of Cyberpunk 2020 not being influential is....silly.

                            It was a massively influential game.

                            But I admit you might not know this if you didn't read books like this:

                            https://www.amazon.com/Designers-Dra...7267529&sr=8-2
                            Last edited by CTPhipps; 08-12-2020, 05:36 PM.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                              Creating the concepts of a bunch of mercenaries doing jobs for corporations as a regular thing (versus the one-off job in Neuromancer)
                              Turner, one of the protagonists of Count Zero, is a professional unaffiliated corporate mercenary doing jobs for corporations as a regular thing. And if you look for it, you can see the legs of Solo, Techie, Med-Techie, Corpo and Netrunner roles in the team he's working with. Turner's also the source for Shadowrun's Edge.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Kammerer View Post

                                Turner, one of the protagonists of Count Zero, is a professional unaffiliated corporate mercenary doing jobs for corporations as a regular thing. And if you look for it, you can see the legs of Solo, Techie, Med-Techie, Corpo and Netrunner roles in the team he's working with. Turner's also the source for Shadowrun's Edge.
                                Yep and it was Mike who popularized it among gamers, not Count Zero.

                                And before you dismiss this claim, allow me to illustrate.

                                "What game would you be doing this in?"

                                Which is to say that you needed a cyberpunk game to do it and....Mike was the guy who published it.


                                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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