Bloodlines 2 delayed to 2021

[CTPhipps]

I wasn't arguing that, the diablerie is not the problem,
but a thin blood stays caitiff

Ah, found it! Page 113 from the V5 handbook:

Straddling the line between mortality and vampirism, thin-bloods have a choice. While they do not age, and can thus stay thin-bloods indefinitely, most of their kind sooner or later chooses the day or the night.

A thin-blood who manages to commit diablerie on a “true” Kindred absorbs not only their power and spirit but also their lineage, turning them into a 13th generation Kindred of their victim’s clan. The Camarilla occasionally dangles this prize in front of dusk-born who show themselves capable of running the dirtiest of errands and surviving, offering up a Cainite sentenced to a Blood Hunt as sacrifice.

The Camarilla part seems to be a direct reference to Bloodlines 2.

[MyWifeIsScary]

This is, uh, a lot to unravel:

A Caitiff literally diablerizing their way into a clan is silly, and you know it. Their connection is meant to be cut, not awaiting additional blood thickness. Caitiffs could be adopted, and taught disciplines, and that's really what I hope they mean when they say you can 'join a clan'. Let's not forget that there are a lot of Caitiff among the 13th, 12th and even 11th generations. A thin blood shouldn't magically become a full-clan member just for becoming a 'full blood'
(also from a computer game perspective, Caitiffs really are the best: the social weakness is good for gameplay, having access to all the disciplines is great Especially since most disciplines should be passive or contextual, and there's less work on the developer's part...)

Also, is that really in V5? That sounds extra heretical, even for v5.

As for Camarilla Diablerie...
There are no sect-wide rules specifically pertaining to diablerie beyond the tradition concerning the Right of Destruction (IE it's up to the eldest among you). Some princes may never allow it, even during a blood hunt. Some princes might dangle it in front of your noses for even the most menial of tasks.

[CTPhipps]

This is, uh, a lot to unravel:

A Caitiff literally diablerizing their way into a clan is silly, and you know it.

Caitiff? Yes.

Thin Blood? No.

The purity of diablerie cures them of their condition! It gives them a connection to the True Blood of Caine.

I like Duskborn now have a reason to WANT to exterminate the vampires above them. To become a "real" vampire.

As for Camarilla Diablerie...
There are no sect-wide rules specifically pertaining to diablerie beyond the tradition concerning the Right of Destruction (IE it's up to the eldest among you). Some princes may never allow it, even during a blood hunt. Some princes might dangle it in front of your noses for even the most menial of tasks.

Elders are delicious. That's all that matters.
-Inner Sabbat

[Pleiades]

Ah, found it! Page 113 from the V5 handbook:

A thin-blood who manages to commit diablerie on a “true” Kindred absorbs not only their power and spirit but also their lineage, turning them into a
13th generation Kindred of their victim’s clan. The Camarilla occasionally dangles this prize in front of dusk-born who show themselves capable of running the dirtiest of errands and surviving, offering up a Cainite sentenced to a Blood Hunt as sacrifice.

do you even read my posts?

yes, this is what I'm talking about, this is dumb, this is what needs to go, this is why I'm willing to accept the older edition flaws and willing to apologize for all I said about Tremere

the V5 Camarilla is hard to swallow, and this can't be houseruled because it's a video game,
which means you need to learn to mod the game to be able to house-rule things

[CTPhipps]

do you even read my posts?

yes, this is what I'm talking about, this is dumb, this is what needs to go, this is why I'm willing to accept the older edition flaws and willing to apologize for all I said about Tremere

the V5 Camarilla is hard to swallow, and this can't be houseruled because it's a video game,
which means you need to learn to mod the game to be able to house-rule things

I think it makes perfect sense and helps make Thin Blood stories more interesting. Remember, Elders are afraid of Thin Bloods and this gives them a good reason to hunt "real" vampires.

Why is it hard to accept for the Camarilla, though?

I am honestly curious.

[Pleiades]

I think it makes perfect sense and helps make Thin Blood stories more interesting. Remember, Elders are afraid of Thin Bloods and this gives them a good reason to hunt "real" vampires.

Why is it hard to accept for the Camarilla, though?

I am honestly curious.

because camarilla clans being gatekeeping assholes is part of their identity,
you're a thin blood caitiff who diablerized to full blood, you stay caitiff

some elder wants to adopt you and have you masquerade as one of the clan...alright, fine, good luck handling all the sideways looks

[CTPhipps]

because camarilla clans being gatekeeping assholes is part of their identity,
you're a thin blood caitiff who diablerized to full blood, you stay caitiff

some elder wants to adopt you and have you masquerade as one of the clan...alright, fine, good luck handling all the sideways looks

Interesting perspective. Thanks for that.

[MyWifeIsScary]

Thinbloods are Caitiff.
Diablerizing into a clan would make sense if all caitiffs did that, but they don't and never have. I suppose we're now in a setting where diablerie gives you clan weaknesses too?

Elders fear thin bloods because religion... That's enough reason. But I suppose since 'gehenna' turns out to not be quite the ordeal it was promised to be they'd need a new reason to fear thinbloods. Or maybe they can still fear the 'real' gehenna. Hmmm...

Also, aren't we working under the assumption that thinblood alchemy exists *shudders* and that it goes away when you become full blooded? It seems to me than In V5 you absolutely do not want to diablerize ever because potency comes with a lot of inconvenience and little benefits, each diablerie comes with less rewards and increased risks. Now you get a clan who will murder you for eating your way in? Fuck that. Caitiff are the secret master race; their only weakness is a lack of family support and a lot of jealousy.


Too me, this all looks like "If we commit enough wrongs we'll eventually make it look right!"

[CTPhipps]

Thinbloods are Caitiff.
Diablerizing into a clan would make sense if all caitiffs did that, but they don't and never have. I suppose we're now in a setting where diablerie gives you clan weaknesses too?

A Thin Blood who diablerizes a real vampire becomes a member of that vampire's Clan or Bloodline. If he's 14th, 15th, or 16th generation they become a 13th Generation Nosferatu or Malkavian or whatever.

A Caitiff does not become one of those because they're real vampires.

Elders fear thin bloods because religion... That's enough reason. But I suppose since 'gehenna' turns out to not be quite the ordeal it was promised to be they'd need a new reason to fear thinbloods. Or maybe they can still fear the 'real' gehenna. Hmmm...

Elders fear the young because both of them are cannibals. Elders will eventually begin mass diablerie of the young because of the Methuselah's thirst and the young will kill Elders for their sweet-sweet blood.

Also, aren't we working under the assumption that thinblood alchemy exists *shudders* and that it goes away when you become full blooded? It seems to me than In V5 you absolutely do not want to diablerize ever because potency comes with a lot of inconvenience and little benefits, each diablerie comes with less rewards and increased risks. Now you get a clan who will murder you for eating your way in? Fuck that. Caitiff are the secret master race; their only weakness is a lack of family support and a lot of jealousy.

Too me, this all looks like "If we commit enough wrongs we'll eventually make it look right!"

The part of the page says a Thin Blood will either have to choose to become part of mainstream Kindred society, which requires diablerie, or live forever as a half-vampire.

And why would a clan murder you? You have claimed the Blood via the rights of the Camarilla.

Mind you, I suspect that different tables handle differently. I've been at tables that treat diablerie as something no vampire would ever tolerate among themselves. That it is the ultimate crime and any vampire whose done it is a permanent outcast or hunted. Other tables where it is something you just don't speak about. Personally, at my table, I think every Elder is guilty of it unless they've started at a very low generation. Diablerie is something you need to do if you're a 12th or 13th generation vampire working to survive to become an 8th or 9th level Elder. You do the deed as sanctioned by the Prince or Baron and pretend you didn't but people will accept your new generation.

It's like the mob.

Obviously, other people's tables will be different. Then again, I'm a huge Sabbat fan and think the Camarilla is every bit as bad, just more polite about it.

How do you handle diablerie in your games?

[MyWifeIsScary]

Also.

I thought B2 was using pre-v5 disciplines. The player is playing an inceptor, and they can develop their unique power.
When I read up on thin bloods in V5, it looks like they can't put xp into disciplines, they just have alchemy and a dot of discipline from the last resonance they took.

[CTPhipps]

Also.

I thought B2 was using pre-v5 disciplines. The player is playing an inceptor, and they can develop their unique power.
When I read up on thin bloods in V5, it looks like they can't put xp into disciplines, they just have alchemy and a dot of discipline from the last resonance they took.

It's V5 except for Thin Bloods because it's hard to put alchemy into the game.

There's Resonances, the diablerie rule, and other stuff from V5 but you get your own Discipline as a Thin Blood.

[MyWifeIsScary]

You make it sound like that's a small thing. That's not a small thing. If I'm not mistaken, they're doing something that completely refutes a v5 retcon.

V5 powers are a lot harder to translate into a computer game format. Are you really so sure this will be the only thing?

[CTPhipps]

You make it sound like that's a small thing. That's not a small thing. If I'm not mistaken, they're doing something that completely refutes a v5 retcon.

V5 powers are a lot harder to translate into a computer game format. Are you really so sure this will be the only thing?

I'm not sure what you mean but they've talked extensively about the Second Inquisition and the Tremere being newcomers in the city as well as refugees since their headquarters was destroyed.

Also, the focus on Resonance to increase your stats.

[MyWifeIsScary]

The Story of V5 is one thing. A lot of V5's story -could- work. There's a few things that are really, really bothersome, but the broad strokes can be made to function.
The Mechanics however, have a lot of huge retcons that impact the story: The way thinbloods work, the way the beast works, the way disciplines work, the way elders work, the nature of magic.

Pen and Paper games aren't like Halo; we can't seperate the game's mechanics from the lore so easily. Halo is a game where the pistol does more damage than the assault rifle, but we know that's just a gameplay choice and it doesn't impact the story. B2 is a video game, so it is kinda like Halo, but that doesn't give it all the leeway. If we're chosing between Blink and Traversal, that's very much a -game- thing, but If we're using inceptor disciplines that you level up, we're using something that V5 has retconned out of existence, and it becomes a story thing.

So, I don't think this game will be purely V5. And the old creative lead was obviously someone who loved the other editions. I remain apprehensive because it's difficult to guess how much is actually v5. Also old hats mix their knowledge up; I recall a recent spat where a v5 writer told me thin bloods can learn normal disciplines in v5.

[CTPhipps]

Well, hopefully Bloodlines 2 is as much V5 as Bloodlines was Revised.