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Cainite Influence in the Military

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  • Cainite Influence in the Military

    Does anyone know or have theories on how Cainites exert influence over the military, specifically on a local level? I have been searching through my collection of books for an answer to this question, but haven't been able to find any concrete answers.

    I am currently writing up a Kindred history for Las Vegas with the intention of incorporating the tiny bits of Vampire canon spread over several old books, and the proximity of Nellis Airforce Base, with it essentially composing the Northwest corner of Vegas, means that I need at least one elder who influenced that area until the Anarchs took over. I am just at a loss for character concepts that would work well.

    Does anyone have any ideas?

  • #2
    Problem you would run into at least imo is the Cam as a whole getting very nervous about any elder gaining any influence over a military base, not only for power reasons but how much of a risk to the masquerade it poses.


    You've been playing around the magic that is black
    But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Dwight View Post
      Problem you would run into at least imo is the Cam as a whole getting very nervous about any elder gaining any influence over a military base, not only for power reasons but how much of a risk to the masquerade it poses.

      Yeah, I was considering adding areas to the map where the local Kindred know to avoid because of SI attention. That would include Nellis and both major Vegas airports. The only problem, in my mind, is that most military bases aren't really what most people think of when they hear the term "military base" For the most part, US bases are just small towns built to support the personnel, and more specifically their families. There are Burger Kings and Starbucks, not just barracks and military police. So, I feel like even the Camarilla would have elders who build their bases of power within the military. I would agree that trying to insert agents into something like the Pentagon would be a bad idea, but on a local level I don't think there would be all that much more risk.

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      • #4
        You'll probably want to look at the old Revised Brujah clanbook, as they had an entire Background in that book dedicated to having Military Influence. You could also look at the various LARP influence rules for ideas on how that would work.

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        • #5
          Unless you're in the kind of countries where it's a warzone or corruption is so rampant the military is really another form of mob, You don't really want to touch the military in any capacity that might involve it's use. You might know a guy who pays a guy who can get stuff from the military like personel files or, if you're desperate, ordinance, but that's as far as you'll want to go. They don't make great havens given the chances your rivals might have to engineer an accident.

          Militia groups and mercenaries are better options for the USA


          Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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          • #6
            The writers of most White Wolf lines tended to avoid big picture mechanics or even possibilities, hence why the Resources scale is so wonky and there isn't mechanical support for running corporations or mega corporations in the modern world.

            Assuming a first world military, vampires would probably be integrated sideways rather than vertically. So a vampire might run a company with a military contract, rather than being part of the military itself. Thus a vampire might tag along on certain missions as an advisor or consultant and as a result have some pull in the decisions on the given mission.

            If you are wanting some vampires actually doing the fighting, then as others have mentioned a mercenary company makes the most sense. Especially if they have a mix of ghouls so that they can function day or night. Once again since such independent contractors routinely work with the militaries of the world, so you can get influence with them as a vampire.

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            • #7
              Most first world militaries are very heavily bureaucratized to an almost absurd level. Influencing a local military base would mostly involve having access to the right clerks and secretaries, and the right handful of people within the command structure, as well as the Bureaucracy ability to send out the proper paper work to move things the way you want them to.

              This sort of thing could be accomplished by any vampire who dwells on the base. Either as some sort of "phantom doctor" of the Mike O'Callaghan Military Medical Center or a permanent resident at one of the base's hotels.



              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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              • #8
                Nellis Airforce base is actually the domain of the Technocracy, They're probably keeping any Vampire influence from taking hold there. It's described more in "Fallen Tower: Vegas" For Mage Revised.

                Over all, I would say Kindred don't influence the Military to much entirely because of hitting up against Mages from the Technocracy who consider that their own domain in the modern world... and because in general, it's probably less useful to them, and to easy to be a potential Masquerade Breach with disasterous consequences.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Orphan81 View Post
                  Nellis Airforce base is actually the domain of the Technocracy, They're probably keeping any Vampire influence from taking hold there. It's described more in "Fallen Tower: Vegas" For Mage Revised.
                  Vegas is different in Mage Revised and Vampire Revised,
                  in Vampire, it's a Camarilla domain
                  in Mage, it's technocracy territory where vampires have no substential presence

                  however, even in the Vampire version, vampires are restricted in what they can take (for example, they are not allowed to take influence over the local crime syndicates and casinos iirc)


                  -

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

                    Vegas is different in Mage Revised and Vampire Revised,
                    in Vampire, it's a Camarilla domain
                    in Mage, it's technocracy territory where vampires have no substential presence

                    however, even in the Vampire version, vampires are restricted in what they can take (for example, they are not allowed to take influence over the local crime syndicates and casinos iirc)

                    It's not Technocracy Territory, The Traditions are actually more in control of the Strip itself. It still goes back to, you don't often see Vampires in control of Military assets, that's always been the case in Masquerade. It's rare for it to happen... Just like you don't see Vampires secretly in control of the Upper levels of the government... Whitewolf has always wanted Humans to mostly be in control of their own destiny, rather than Vampires secretly being the reason behind everything. Vampires in control of the Military would come up against that precept.

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                    • #11
                      I've thought for sometime the Camarilla probably assigns vampires, maybe archons, who monitor larger bases if just to make certain no one (Anarchs, Sabbat, some elder with a grudge) steals any of the hardware (guns, tanks, planes, bombs, etc). Larger bases can function as cities on their own, which is to say a lot of people to eat and important people to push around or dominate. That military bases are left alone, just because, feels like a strange oversight.

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                      • #12
                        Hardestadt the Younger notably has military persons as his selective prey.

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                        • #13
                          I think the opinion on military influence has been changing over time, and today its going to bring the kind of attention even elders dread. No-one would have considered it particularly strange if a kindred kept a couple of mercenary companies under their thumb during the hundred years war. Or even during WW2 when commanders on the ground had some leeway.

                          But in the last few decades, the advancements that have been made in the area of bunker busters... Things like the Massive Ordnance Perpetrator. These are things that can send a Methuselah in Torpor to Final Death. From half a world away and on fairly short notice. Methuselahs that keep up enough to know what these are, will not want other kindred to have any kind of influence there. Much like nukes.

                          So I'm thinking theres going to be some kinds of very subtle half-hearted jockeying around by the old blood gods. Things even the Elders dread. But every time one gets an advantage, several others will fang-block it.

                          Not saying there couldn't be a temporary truce if someone unpopular enough was stirring, like Shaitan or Sutekh.

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                          • #14
                            I believe, in current times, that the Camarilla actively discourages kindred from attempting to gain control over powerful government organizations due to the threat of the Second Inquisition. Not that the SI would just allow kindred to do what they want elsewhere, but they'll be *especially* keen on going after kindred taking on the military or upper echelons of the FBI/CIA/NSA.

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                            • #15
                              One of the bigger obstacles to long term manipulation of individual military personnel would be that they get promoted and reassigned somewhere out of one's range of influence by forces outside the control of any vampire. Possible exceptions might be installations like Fort Bragg, North Carolina, or Naval Submarine Base New London in Groton, Connecticut - places where the limited number of volunteers for hazardous duty assignment leads to personnel who do sign on spending their entire careers in one spot.

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