Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What if Wan Gui were the dominant Group of Vampires and Cainites the minority?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What if Wan Gui were the dominant Group of Vampires and Cainites the minority?

    So I like me a good alternate setting, like what if the Fae were the lords of the supernatural world and the others operated under them, or what if aliens had a secret war against the supernaturals of earth. This is in the same Vein. What if the Wan Gui were the dominant and default group of Vampires. They spread out around the entire world so thoroughly that essentially all of humanity inherited their Karmic debt so Wan Gui could appear anywhere. They would use the default Term Hungry Dead, but like how Kindred seemed to center around European tradition, the Hungry Dead centered around Asia due to their historical roots there. The most common powerful elders are from Asia but they have been around the world long enough that Ancestors come from all cultures.

    And the brood of Caine is a minority that spread through the embrace. They might have a few centers of power like say the British Isles, and Rome and Sicily but most places they are treated as outsiders or possibly even hunted on sight. Thus Cainite Disciplines are the mysterious and rare powers while the Shintai have expanded and specialized and have become a robust set of options.

    How does this play out?


    It is a time for great deeds!

  • #2
    This only works under the assumption that Cainites have lost all/most of their ancients and elders, thus they are all high generation and can only reproduce so much. The Cathayans can rise up on their own, whilst the Cainites must eat their way up, and if there's nobody to eat, the Cathayans will have a much higher power ceiling than the Cainites, allowing them to destroy most cainites outside of a few cities where vampires do have some older blood and have a good defence. Cainites, in adapting to this threat, probably aren't that canibalistic; They are going to trust their elders to shelter them from an external threat.

    Otherwise, if vampires are to keep their ancients; they'd win wars. Quite simply they can produce way, way faster than Cathayans and have better control over mortal populaces. Many Wan Gui, raised in western cultures, would probably have mercenary or good relationships with Cainites.

    Also... "Cainites" won big in part because europeans conquered near everything. If the Cathayans still used asia as their hub the implications would be for an alt-history were asia was the colonizer for the world.


    Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

    Comment


    • #3
      It would be like every early 90's cyberpunk dystopia where Asian based MegaCorps own everything. It would be amazing


      You've been playing around the magic that is black
      But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

      Comment


      • #4
        The biggest issue with Cainites being a minority and the Kuei-jin being the majority comes down to population replenishment.

        A Kuei-jin must have lived a relatively complete mortal life, have squandered that life in some way that sets them up to go to hell, then finally have the psychological fortitude to escape the Yomi and return to earth. All of that can take between 16 and 70 years wait between the next Kuei-Jin popping up and that is assuming minimal time in the Yomi. On the other hand the Cainites can just choose to embrace who ever has the skills and attributes they want. So you need some mechanical reason for why Cainites can't mass embrace or even just embrace at a rate faster than the Kuei-Jin pop up.

        Once the Cainite exponential population problem is taken care of we can focus on looking at history to explain the movements across the globe. For instance there seems to be evidence pointing to the idea that some Chinese explorers managed to find the west coast of the US a couple centuries before Columbus hopped across the pond, but due to political upheaval in China when they got back, no colonization or further exploration was planned. So that gives you Kuei-jin access to the new world to spread their influence.

        The heritage restriction that only allows asians to become Kuei-Jin makes storytelling certain character concepts less viable with a world spanning focus. Instead the Kuei-Jin should probably pull a 1980s approach and just have massive asian corporations that span the globe. Kind of like how in the movie "Bright" all the really high end CEOs and rich people are Elves. This would facilitate certain dharma shifts, like how the Face of the Gods dharma would probably be one of the most prominent groups if for no other reason they are one of the best at controlling groups of mortals in the Kuei-Jin.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well Asians only become Hungry Ghosts because Yomi wan has access to only about half the souls in there Metaphysical paradigm and that coincides with the half of the world Wan Xian governed in prehistory. This assumes the Wan Gui have claimed Dragons Nests around the world and for long enough the metaphysical territory of Yomi wan has become global.

          This also effects the numbers as more Wan Gui rise. Let’s assume they have even a slight overpopulation problem and thus have no issue with replenishing their numbers unless they lose a drastic amount of their population all at once.


          It is a time for great deeds!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
            This only works under the assumption that Cainites have lost all/most of their ancients and elders, thus they are all high generation and can only reproduce so much. The Cathayans can rise up on their own, whilst the Cainites must eat their way up, and if there's nobody to eat, the Cathayans will have a much higher power ceiling than the Cainites, allowing them to destroy most cainites outside of a few cities where vampires do have some older blood and have a good defence. Cainites, in adapting to this threat, probably aren't that canibalistic; They are going to trust their elders to shelter them from an external threat.

            Otherwise, if vampires are to keep their ancients; they'd win wars. Quite simply they can produce way, way faster than Cathayans and have better control over mortal populaces. Many Wan Gui, raised in western cultures, would probably have mercenary or good relationships with Cainites.

            Also... "Cainites" won big in part because europeans conquered near everything. If the Cathayans still used asia as their hub the implications would be for an alt-history were asia was the colonizer for the world.
            Well the idea would be the Cainites and the Wan Gui probably warred centuries if not millenia ago and the Cainites lost, maybe the Antes died fighting the Arhats and most of the methuselah were wiped out. The remaining Cainites don’t have very good generation except for a handful. If they got territory they could replenish numbers but not cure their generation problem that easily but they don’t have the time or safety to mass train enough neonates for a quadrupling of their population. Meanwhile the Wan Gui recovered their loss of elders from the war naturally centuries ago.

            Presumably some of the internal conflicts would be Things the Quincunx trying reign in and dominate the Sunset Courts and various civil Wars.


            It is a time for great deeds!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
              Well Asians only become Hungry Ghosts because Yomi wan has access to only about half the souls in there Metaphysical paradigm and that coincides with the half of the world Wan Xian governed in prehistory. This assumes the Wan Gui have claimed Dragons Nests around the world and for long enough the metaphysical territory of Yomi wan has become global.

              This also effects the numbers as more Wan Gui rise. Let’s assume they have even a slight overpopulation problem and thus have no issue with replenishing their numbers unless they lose a drastic amount of their population all at once.
              Yeah, probably because I missed a thing or two when I read the core book (And have only read the core book) I always figured becoming a Wan Kuei was a matter of geography not anything particular to do with the ethinicity of a person or the nature of the soul.

              Comment


              • #8
                I'd imagine the remaining Cainites would be servants of Yomi,
                maybe cainite drones as well,
                we'd have cainites on path of revelations or path of night spreading evil among humanity for yomi to harvest


                -

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
                  This only works under the assumption that Cainites have lost all/most of their ancients and elders, thus they are all high generation and can only reproduce so much. The Cathayans can rise up on their own, whilst the Cainites must eat their way up, and if there's nobody to eat, the Cathayans will have a much higher power ceiling than the Cainites, allowing them to destroy most cainites outside of a few cities where vampires do have some older blood and have a good defence. Cainites, in adapting to this threat, probably aren't that canibalistic; They are going to trust their elders to shelter them from an external threat.

                  Otherwise, if vampires are to keep their ancients; they'd win wars. Quite simply they can produce way, way faster than Cathayans and have better control over mortal populaces. Many Wan Gui, raised in western cultures, would probably have mercenary or good relationships with Cainites.

                  Also... "Cainites" won big in part because europeans conquered near everything. If the Cathayans still used asia as their hub the implications would be for an alt-history were asia was the colonizer for the world.
                  That would Still only work if they also lost all rituals that allowed one to increase their gen without diablerie(like the assamite "From Marduk's Throat" ritual). Those are supposed to be uber-rare and closely guarded secrets, but elder vampires are Also supposed to be uber-rare and I'm pretty sure loosing their ancients would be enough to persuade many a vampire clan to start using their rituals more Liberally(just to survive if nothing else).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    They are? I mean if you look at it from a Noneurocentric view of the world Kindred have always been a minor issue. For most of human history most of humanity has fallen under WK domination. There were whole cities in "Medievial" china that a larger population than the equivalent time period in England. In the Blink of an Elder's eye Kindred have come to matter. Europe has come to matter... but China endures.

                    And look at the 21st Century.... the powers of the West wane.. while China Ascends. What is 200 years to an Immortal being?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Interesting Idea:

                      MyWoD works on the assumption that for hundreds of thousands of years Hungry Dead were the only type of 'vampire' around the world, and then 20K years ago in Northern Africa someones Second Breath went terribly wrong ( right?) and the Kindred came about, a form of Hungry Dead that spread not through fighting your way out of the dark but as plague. Soon Kindred spread across first Africa then the Middle East and Europe swamping and destroying the old Ghost Families......more recently they have spread to North America, Australia, South Asia, SE Asia. East Asia, South America, Central America, Indo-China....the Hungry Dead still hold on in these places but inexorably they are increasing in numbers. In places where the Hungry Dead are still strong and the Kindred relatively few agreements are made and the societies mingle and join...but it is a cordiality born of necessity and if the balance tips....the Kindred will spawn like cockroaches and take another territory as their own.

                      I will admit to preferring KotE Mechanics and metaphysics over VtM ones simply because I prefer folkloric 'vampires' over cinematic ones and while VtM does media-inspired vampires very well KotE is a much better system for modelling even such traditional European beings as Moroi, Shtriga, Draugr, Gjenganger, Pijavica and more.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Thoth View Post
                        For instance there seems to be evidence pointing to the idea that some Chinese explorers managed to find the west coast of the US a couple centuries before Columbus hopped across the pond, but due to political upheaval in China when they got back, no colonization or further exploration was planned.
                        No. Just no.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trollroot View Post
                          No. Just no.
                          While I appreciate brevity, after a certain point you have to go a little more in depth in your responses.

                          Because there are several examples of story hook worthy material in history that can be used as explanations for the home brew setting justification.

                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Co...ntact_theories


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Trollroot View Post

                            No. Just no.
                            Actually, no, it's a legitimate theory. So are African explorers. We also know Vikings made it before the World's Worst Navigator.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Thoth View Post

                              While I appreciate brevity, after a certain point you have to go a little more in depth in your responses.

                              Because there are several examples of story hook worthy material in history that can be used as explanations for the home brew setting justification.

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Co...ntact_theories


                              I remember the theory that Chinese vessels made contact with the west coast was torn apart by a lot of legitimate historians, and the author famous for bringing the theory to mainstream notice turned out to be a charlatan. I'm sure a number of youtube videos on the subject are easily found. But it is an interesting idea, especially for a setting like the World of Darkness. It could even explain a lack of Cainites north of Mexico by the time Cainites arrived from Europe, like secret groups of Wan Gui could have formed an underground court in America, capturing enough Holy sites to convert to Dragon Nests and trickle in enough replacement Wan Gui from the homeland and maybe from regions converted enough to Middle Kingdom Geomancy that mortals sometimes pop back from Hell.


                              It is a time for great deeds!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X