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Anarchs in a Camarilla City and Embracing?

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  • Anarchs in a Camarilla City and Embracing?

    So, let's say you have a Camarilla ruled city with a Prince in charge. But there's either a part of town that's Anarch territory (like Hollywood in the Bloodlines game), or you just have a strong enough Anarch faction there, so the Prince can't just fully steamroll them.

    If an Anarch embraces a new childer, do they need to ask the Prince for permission too? That seems to go counter to anything the Anarchs stand for.
    Do they just go "Well fuck you, I'm an Anarch and Treaty of Thorns bla bla, I do what I want, and this is my childe now, you can't do anything" ?
    Or is it something in between?

  • #2
    Per the treaty the only tradition the anarchs have to follow is the masquerade. Now if said embrace breaks that then the Prince can come down on the sire with the full weight of their office.


    You've been playing around the magic that is black
    But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

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    • #3
      I don’t think the Prince would give you permission, amd if you go ahead and embrace anyway, your’ll have a blood hunt called on you.

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      • #4
        As a general rule, Camarilla princes that allow Anarchs to live peacefully in their city would still expect them to at least TRY and follow the traditions. If a Prince discovers the anarchs are running around embracing willy nilly and overpopulating their city, they WILL react strongly and aggressively. Remember that the reason for this strong schism in modern nights is because the Camarilla feel the rules they are putting in place are there for the safety of ALL kindred. It's not just about wanting the Camarilla to rule out of pride anymore. So if the anarchs can respect that the Second Inquisition is indeed a threat, and tone down their behaviour and become a bit more secretive to avoid SI getting wind of them, Camarilla princes might be perfectly fine taking a hands off approach. The moment the anarchs break that and threaten the security of all kindred in that city, Princes and everyone else in the Camarilla WILL try and take them out to restore order and their sense of security.

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        • #5
          You *can* do anything you'd like. Whether the Prince is going to stand up and take umbrage at the "unauthorized" embrace is, I suspect, going to depend on a number of factors, listed *roughly* but imperfectly from most to least important:

          1) The behavior of the new vampire -- this is probably the #1 issue, not only because bad behavior is a threat to everyone, but it also provides political cover to the Prince for coming down like a hammer.
          2) The identity of the new vampire -- is it the police comissioner's eighteen year old son or some nobody?
          3) The relative power of the sire vis-a-vis the Prince, both personally and in terms of social status.
          4) Existing agreements and accords that may exist, formally or informally, between the Prince and the anarchs
          5) The relative power of the Prince vis-a-vis the anarchs
          6) Whether the sire has allies in the Camarilla part of town who might look after him or intercede on his or her behalf
          7) Prestation issues -- can the sire call in favors?

          I think it's important to remember that if the anarchs have already staked out a part of the town as their own, we're already not dealing with a particularly hard-line Prince (in terms of enforcement and attitude). We're likely dealing either with a less-powerful Prince who has negotiated their way into equilibrium, or someone so vastly powerful they don't actually care.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
            I don’t think the Prince would give you permission, amd if you go ahead and embrace anyway, your’ll have a blood hunt called on you.
            Then the Anarchs would kill the Sheriff when they tried because safety in numbers--or they'd cut their losses.

            Basically it's a Cold War between the Anarch and Camarilla in any city.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #7
              Depends on the claims of the Prince. If he claims 'Hollywood' and allows a baron to rule there without ceding certain rights to the Baron, you'd need the Prince's permission. If the Prince does not claim Hollywood or has granted the Baron enough authority then it'd be fine.


              Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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              • #8
                I should mention the timeline is still pre-V5 and pre-Second Inquisition.

                And the Treaty of Thorns does spell out "You anarchs can do what you want, as long as you don't break the Masquerade". Of course "break the masquerade" can be interpreted in a variety of ways.

                But thanks for the answers everyone

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                • #9
                  Siring all Willy nilliy l can lead to a masquerade breach.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Quatar View Post
                    I should mention the timeline is still pre-V5 and pre-Second Inquisition.

                    And the Treaty of Thorns does spell out "You anarchs can do what you want, as long as you don't break the Masquerade". Of course "break the masquerade" can be interpreted in a variety of ways.

                    But thanks for the answers everyone
                    Oh yeah, then he'd get a Blood Hunt.

                    Anarchs are still nominally part of the Camarilla.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #11
                      Which means they have to ask permission ,to Embrace.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                        Oh yeah, then he'd get a Blood Hunt.

                        Anarchs are still nominally part of the Camarilla.
                        But protected under the treaty of thorns. The sire can embrace someone because Anarchs aren't bound by the tradition of progeny or accounting. However if said embrace causes a masquerade breach then it's a blood hunt for everyone.
                        Last edited by Dwight; 08-21-2020, 04:00 PM.


                        You've been playing around the magic that is black
                        But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
                          Which means they have to ask permission ,to Embrace.
                          Again, nope. You can embrace a mortal, just cover your bases so them getting said embrace dosen't break the masquerade.


                          You've been playing around the magic that is black
                          But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Quatar View Post
                            And the Treaty of Thorns does spell out "You anarchs can do what you want, as long as you don't break the Masquerade". Of course "break the masquerade" can be interpreted in a variety of ways.
                            It's true that it's a, shall we say, "flexible" term.

                            But I think that it's probably also true that in most cities and with most Princes, citing language from the Convention of Thorns and $4.25 will get you a Venti Misto at the local Starbucks.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dwight View Post

                              But protected under the treaty of thorns. The sire can embrace someone because Anarchs aren't bound by the tradition of progeny or accounting. However if said embrace causes a masquerade breach then it's a blood hunt for everyone.
                              No, that's not how it works.

                              If an Anarch Embraces someone without the Prince's permission then there's a blood hunt on both. See La Croix.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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