Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why don’t vampires ghoul/Dominate/Presence famous people?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why don’t vampires ghoul/Dominate/Presence famous people?

    I mean, why settle for the mayor of a city like Chicago when you could influence the President? Or Brad Pitt?


    The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

  • #2
    -Because you're in chicago, not washington or LA
    -Because you're under the assumption that people like that are controlled by more powerful Vampires, even if you don't have a dot of politics that much is there.
    -Because the president is a figurehead and Brad pitt could be thrown into irrelevance or a scandal within a week. Anyone with a dot of politics knows what they really want to do is influence or build upon the lobbying groups that really control the president's policies. Similarly if you were in Atlanta and wanted to control Coca-Cola, you should just control shares like everybody else.
    -Because the nail that sticks out is the one that gets hammered down and it's best not to inspire jealousy or any ideas that you'll risk the masquerade with your stupidity.


    Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

    Comment


    • #3
      Concerning things like the President, USA wise, I believe (but I could be seriously wrong) each President is apparently guarded by somesort of Incarna that's a manifestation of the USA. Any Kindred sort of a Meth would probably become toast if they tried to ghoul a USA president (again I could be wrong on all this an misremembering it entirely). For other heads of states idk, they might be fair game- but I'd imagine more equally important heads of state like the Queen Elizabeth II of the UK and some others would be defended by some form of Incarnae.

      Beyond stuff from WTA though, I'd also imagine the Technocracy wouldn't be happy about a Vampire trying to reel in a USA prez into the Jyhad and risk the Consensus being shifted back to the outright belief of the fantastical if a very bad public Masquerade break were to happen; because proof of Vampires or just anything high supernatural = the Traditions getting more power again. They'd probably preemptively stop it.

      For celebrities? Who's the say that they don't at all?


      Jade Kingdom Warrior

      Comment


      • #4
        Canonically, regarding general celebrities, vampires do sometimes decide to enthrall them in various ways; most vampires agree it's not worth the headaches involved though.

        Something to consider when it comes to the President of the USA specifically, is that they're term-limited. So a massive amount of effort to gain supernatural influence over one... for at best eight years while they have actual power? Not really a great payoff in the end.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you both. Those make sense.


          The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

          Comment


          • #6
            Do you know how much people watch Politicians and celebrities? The second they start acting odd, people would notice.

            Comment


            • #7
              DC by night explains that it is almost imposible to control the president , a general or any powerful politician becuase the moment you do everyone will gang upon you even your allies as a preventive measure.

              Marcus Vitel was killed becuase of that in revised (This was recotned later in V20).


              https://www.deviantart.com/cicerondixit/gallery

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Penelope View Post
                I mean, why settle for the mayor of a city like Chicago when you could influence the President? Or Brad Pitt?
                They probably do impose their will on celebrities - which is why some celebrities self destruct. Others in this list have discussed why major leaders (politicians and generals, etc) are usually not controlled.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Powerful people should very often have high Willpower which will negate many attempts of mind controlling powers. And as ST, I often make some of them Neutrals (people naturally immune to Dominate) and/or Unbondable. I reason that to explain their rise to power among many competitors they must have had some advantages to do so.

                  I also think that after a certain level, other supernatural organizations and hunters begin to watch over these figures to see who is stupid enough to poke out their head so they can cut them off. In other words, despite the potential reward, the risk isn't worth it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you. These are all great reasons.


                    The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For Dominate at least, on top of Willpower, Nature is also going to matter a lot, as people that pursue high office tend to have Natures that make them more difficult to control.

                      As well, it's often very obvious when a figure of significant power is under someone else's sway: even without supernatural powers coming into the picture. If you consider the image (truth is always a bit up or grabs on this) of the George W. Bush administration, he is largely seen as a weak willed person by presidential standards, because it was obvious how much influence certain individuals that were technically his subordinates had on his decision making. Tom Cruise's PR issues when he started promoting Scientology more openly mostly stemmed from the fact that he came off more brainwashed than true believer.

                      While it's worth trying to avoid any moral judgement here (I mean, for the purposes of this thread, I'll gladly do so on some other thread), famous people have a lot of difficulty hiding when someone else is calling the shots largely because we expect famous people to have the type of personality, mental strength, and so on that means they should be calling their own shots (however unrealistic that is).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My impression has always been that the Camarilla has always frowned upon it because it's a potential risk to the Masquerade. As mentioned, people in positions of power and modern media celebrities are watched by a lot of other people. Some of these people may have power of their own - a lot of mundane money and influence; being members of law enforcement or military (including the FBI's SAD or other Twilight Agencies); part of the Inquisition; or are other kinds supernatural beings - who can bring that power to bear against the Kindred. Celebrities - especially actors - have always had a reputation for being not entirely together mentally. When their various addictions and other questionable behavior spiral out of control, it only adds to the already heavy media scrutiny they're under. And even behind the scenes power-players are not immune to this. (Imagine, for example, the #MeToo movement having been about being forced to be fed upon and drink blood instead of/in addition to sexual harassment and abuse. Or the constant questions about Scientology in Hollywood now being about secret vampires.)

                        In addition, high profile targets like Mayors, Governors, Cabinet Secretaries or Presidents (and their non-American equivalents) are a double edged sword. One the one hand, they are theoretically useful enough that multiple powerful vampires may actually fight over trying to influence them (be it even the mundane sort of influence you see in real world politics, let alone the sort of dominance you get with ghouldom), and certain competing efforts may end up canceling each other out. On the other hand, the potential temporariness of these offices means that if you actually have one as your ghoul servant or even Childe, your rivals could easily engineer their removal from office via scandal, failed reelection, or other methods. Likewise, celebrities can be effectively neutered through career ending scandals or otherwise managing to make them no longer hip and cool. (See, for example, how rapidly late 80s hair metal went from major success to being yesterday's embarrassing trend entirely within a single Presidential term.)

                        Not to say it doesn't happen. Vampires are going to fan-ghoul celebrities every bit as much as they impulse-embrace. (Brujah and Toreador seem to have a special reputation for this.) And I suspect most Princes have tried turning a police chief or deputy mayor into a ghoul at least once.


                        What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                        Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          One of my house Allili characters has a Politicactian as a dreamer, and is discussing with him to go to Washington. But that’s different as their relationship is more “equal” and they didn’t start with him as a prominent politician

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
                            One of my house Allili characters has a Politicactian as a dreamer, and is discussing with him to go to Washington. But that’s different as their relationship is more “equal” and they didn’t start with him as a prominent politician
                            That’s really cool.


                            The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks. Their wrote up suggest they could do it, as will as being the on,y playable Unseelie house.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X