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When was The Feast of Folly?

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  • #16
    The Fandom site's White Wolf Wiki subsite lists six different sources in its page on the Feast of Folly, but still doesn't have a precise year when the event happened.

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    • #17
      I don't have any additional canon for this, but here are some comments. (I have my own head canon, but since it contradicts published lore I won't repeat it here).

      Originally posted by DrHappyAngry View Post
      If we assume that Baghdad needed to be built up enough (762 is the date of start of construction) for people to identify themselves as being from Baghdad, combined with them having enough time to actually build the Erciyes monestary and fill it with lore and for Christianity to spread throughout the clan, we're probably looking more at 9th-11th century.
      Baghdad was founded in order to be the capital of new Abbasid caliphs. It only took four years to build, and was clearly a project to establish the power and prestige of the new Caliphs. It was also situated in an excellent economic site so it was also a commercial center, not just administrative. So while the city would continue to grow, in a short number of years it became large. And since it was the home to the Caliph, there is ample reason why people would identify from being there. In fact, we know that the Emperor Charlemagne (lived 748-814, ruled from 768-814 (crowned emperor in 800)) received diplomatic missions from the Caliph in Baghdad in either 797 or 801. So you don't need too much time after this for Cappadocious to wake and see a caravan from Baghdad. You can push it back further, but it isn't needed.

      Around this same, the Macedonian Dynasty came to power in Byzantium (they ruled from 867-1056), and the new rulers helped inauger an era of intellectual growth that historians now term the Macedonian Renaissance. This sounds exactly the kind of thing that Cappadocious would want to encourage.

      So if we say the Cappadocious work up near the end of the 8th century, and gave him about a hundred years to prepare everything for the Feast (which I think is ample time), then the Feast likely occurred sometime in the late ninth or early tenth centuries.

      I don't think it's necessary for him to wait for Christianity to spread throughout the Clan. The religion had been established for centuries at that point. If he converted after receiving some vision, it's not like he'd need to wait for his descendants to become aware of it. In fact, considering he wanted ways to cull the clan, selecting those who already had the "wisdom" to adopt the religion was a good method rather than waiting for the kiss ups and suck ups to do so simply to please him. He just needs the time to prepare the catacombs appropriately.

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      • #18
        The Feast happened after the mortals of Derinkuyu complained about the number of vampires feeding on them and causing all kinds of issues with the herds. The oldest known record of the city is from the writings of Xenophon, who lived between 430 BC and 354 BC. The writings themselves were compiled around 370 BCE.

        We also know that the Feast wasn't called until after Lazarus was embraced, as his rejection of the call is what caused the fight with Caias. Lazarus was embraced at some point in the 1st century CE. And he had to have been old enough to be of sufficient strength to kill Caias, who was embraced over 7,000 years prior to that (he is the first childe of Cappadocious and Japheth was embraced in 7225 BC). So, assume around 500 years or so. Just to give a number.

        We also know that Augustus had not been embraced yet when the Feast was called. His embrace is dated in 1005 CE.

        So, assuming Lazarus was possibly around 500 at the time (just a number that feels like sufficient time to give him enough power with serpentis to be able to survive a fight with Caias), and the Feast being being before Augustus was braced in 1005. You could feasibly put the Feast anywhere from 550 CE to 1000 CE.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Black Fox View Post
          I don't have any additional canon for this, but here are some comments. (I have my own head canon, but since it contradicts published lore I won't repeat it here).



          Baghdad was founded in order to be the capital of new Abbasid caliphs. It only took four years to build, and was clearly a project to establish the power and prestige of the new Caliphs. It was also situated in an excellent economic site so it was also a commercial center, not just administrative. So while the city would continue to grow, in a short number of years it became large. And since it was the home to the Caliph, there is ample reason why people would identify from being there. In fact, we know that the Emperor Charlemagne (lived 748-814, ruled from 768-814 (crowned emperor in 800)) received diplomatic missions from the Caliph in Baghdad in either 797 or 801. So you don't need too much time after this for Cappadocious to wake and see a caravan from Baghdad. You can push it back further, but it isn't needed.

          Around this same, the Macedonian Dynasty came to power in Byzantium (they ruled from 867-1056), and the new rulers helped inauger an era of intellectual growth that historians now term the Macedonian Renaissance. This sounds exactly the kind of thing that Cappadocious would want to encourage.

          So if we say the Cappadocious work up near the end of the 8th century, and gave him about a hundred years to prepare everything for the Feast (which I think is ample time), then the Feast likely occurred sometime in the late ninth or early tenth centuries.

          I don't think it's necessary for him to wait for Christianity to spread throughout the Clan. The religion had been established for centuries at that point. If he converted after receiving some vision, it's not like he'd need to wait for his descendants to become aware of it. In fact, considering he wanted ways to cull the clan, selecting those who already had the "wisdom" to adopt the religion was a good method rather than waiting for the kiss ups and suck ups to do so simply to please him. He just needs the time to prepare the catacombs appropriately.
          That is true that people would have probably started to identify themselves pretty fast as being from Baghdad, but still a few years to build the city and trade routes to get out there. A few more to get the monastery built. Interesting point about the Macedonian Dynasty. He could have helped the dynasty both before and after the Feast, however. It would make sense if that at least started after the Christianization of the clan and before the Feast, though, since he encouraged them to branch out into other subjects besides the study of death then and the clan itself had a bit of a Renaissance in the years between the building of Erciyes and the Feast.

          The Player's Guide to the High Clans mentions they used the Erciyes Temple to spread Christianity throughout the Clan after it was built, but before the feast. It does say it spread fairly swiftly, though. He did cull the non-Christians at the Feast, but it doesn't seem like the Feast was the original plan.

          At this point I think we can say it probably happend in between 800-1000CE by taking mentioned historical events and locations into account. Definitely after 762, since we have the founding of Baghdad as an event before Cappadocious woke up from Torpor, but before 1005CE when Augustus was embraced. That's a lot narrower than I started with between the 4th and 11th centuries. Surprisingly a lot later than I was expecting. I'm still digging through a few other books for any hints that further narrow the time range down.

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