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Caine is probably dead!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
    I like to think Caine was overshadowed by the Antes. And I have it he never cultivated genius and skill to the degree of the Antes..
    This is actually canon , every ante in gehena can kill caine and have supassed him

    They just don´t do that becuase some of them are paranoid beliving he is still as powerful as when they where neonates and revere him (Absimiliard) while other know that the sevenfold curse would kill them if they act and choose to avoid him.

    LaSombra was tricked into bringing final death to Caine in one gehena escenario by lilith and the PCs wich might explain why the defeat of LaSombra happened suddenly in all the other scenarios.


    https://www.deviantart.com/cicerondixit/gallery

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    • #17
      I like the idea of Caine working in middle to upper management at Endron he’s a member of Them the hidden ruling cabal of Endron but he’s posing as a mere mortal so he still has to pack up and leave Aruba in the middle of the night when his psycho dhampir son “accidentally” sets half the island on fire.

      Kinda half trolling half serious on this one 😂


      The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

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      • #18
        The most recent cannon statement about him is from BJD where an unreliable character states Saulot is going to wake Caine, which suggests Caine still exists and is in torpor (or possibly napping).

        Caine appears in at least two of the scenarios of the Gehenna book, but none of that is official any more.

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        • #19
          Also....

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Reasor View Post
            I think Caine's felt is left deliberately ambiguous in order to give Storytellers maximum freedom. He could be the bartender you go to for sage advice or the majority stockholder of PENTEX. Whatever works for you.
            Caine On the Board of Directors for Pentex would be hilariously unexpected.


            It is a time for great deeds!

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            • #21
              He started out in the mail room and worked hard to get to the top.

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              • #22
                One time when I was just starting out we were playing VtM and all the players were fighting with each other cause two of us were crushing on the same guy irl and everybody else picked sides and the ST (who didn’t care either way) got so frustrated he ended the game by saying “Caine appears out of the darkness and eats all of you. Game over.”


                The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Leandro16 View Post

                  This is actually canon , every ante in gehena can kill caine and have supassed him

                  They just don´t do that becuase some of them are paranoid beliving he is still as powerful as when they where neonates and revere him (Absimiliard) while other know that the sevenfold curse would kill them if they act and choose to avoid him.

                  LaSombra was tricked into bringing final death to Caine in one gehena escenario by lilith and the PCs wich might explain why the defeat of LaSombra happened suddenly in all the other scenarios.

                  Interesting. It's been a while since i have read gehenna, so my memory is a bit hazy but what i remember: the book mentionend that the apostles (antes on the side of lilith) were no match for Caine. Only Lilith posed a threat to him. On the side of the antes we know: Haqim was the only that wanted to face him alone. He wanted to eat him and become the first vampire. Haqim's animosity towards Caine makes sense if you believe the origin story told by the web of knives. But the withering weakend him so much he wasn't able to.

                  Lasombra was willing to give the finishing blow but he was asking the pc's for help?. If the pc's helped him, he ended up betraying them. But i might be remembering this wrong.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                    The most recent cannon statement about him is from BJD where an unreliable character states Saulot is going to wake Caine, which suggests Caine still exists and is in torpor (or possibly napping).

                    Caine appears in at least two of the scenarios of the Gehenna book, but none of that is official any more.

                    Yes gehenna is no longer canon. If it was, then there would be no question about his existence. But the bit in BJD is very interesting. Obviously it's from an unreliable character. But if true, it sheds some light into Saulot's endgame. Which is one of the biggest mysteries of the setting.
                    Last edited by blackshade; 09-07-2020, 02:52 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by blackshade View Post


                      Yes gehenna is no longer canon. If it was then were was no question about his existence. But the bit in BJD is very interesting. Obviously it's from an unreliable character. But if true, it sheds some light into Saulot's endgame. Which is one of the biggest mysteries of the setting.
                      I think Caine still exists, but to play devil’s advocate for a moment, the fact that Saulot BELIEVES Caine is not dead doesn’t necessarily make it true.


                      The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

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                      • #26
                        Question

                        Is Red Sign still canon? What’s it about?


                        The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Penelope View Post

                          I think Caine still exists, but to play devil’s advocate for a moment, the fact that Saulot BELIEVES Caine is not dead doesn’t necessarily make it true.
                          I like to think the question of whether Caine is even capable of dying would hinge on whether the Creator would permit it, which opens up all sorts of other cans of worms. If God or the August Personage of Jade really has abandoned the World of Darkness, or has died Itself, then maybe Caine's curse has outlived the One who uttered it, but maybe all bets are off and he's vulnerable again if there's no authority in place to enforce the curse.

                          The way in which a Storyteller chooses to use Caine can be an adaptation to whatever cosmology is already in place in your games. You can even start with a status quo for him that pleases you and unpack it to find ways to connect it what you want to have going on in higher realms.
                          Last edited by Reasor; 09-07-2020, 03:50 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Reasor View Post

                            I like to think the question of whether Caine is even capable of dying would hinge on whether the Creator would permit it, which opens up all sorts of other cans of worms. If God or the August Personage of Jade really has abandoned the World of Darkness, or has died Itself, then maybe Caine's curse has outlived the One who uttered it, but maybe all bets are off and he's vulnerable again if there's no authority in place to enforce the curse.

                            The way in which a Storyteller chooses to use Caine can be an adaptation to whatever cosmology is already in place in your games. You can even start with a status quo for him that pleases you and unpack it to find ways to connect it what you want to have going on in higher realms.

                            This is an interresting idea. But personally i hate bringing god into anything. Thats why i like to completely disregard his existence and the role he played in the creation of vampires. The Caine story is a myth to me. Even if Caine is real, i believe he made the whole story about god cursing him up, to make him self look important. It's propaganda on his part. I mean if god took time from his busy schedule to curse you, then you must be really important. That's the story he wanted to spin.

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                            • #29
                              When you're talking about most high end supernaturals like Caine, the concept of 'death' has about as much meaning to them as it does to your average Marvel/DC comic book character. Dying or killing them may not be the problem, ensuring that they stay that way is the issue.

                              As far as Caine origin stories, it's a bit like King Arthur I think. Believed to exist, but may not have existed (or if he did, not in the way believed.) For example what if the idea/concept of Caine isn't tied to one person but could be 'passed along?' I believe the TV series Supernatural applied that idea. You might kill a Caine, but another would appear since the 'curse' still exists.

                              (Also: If God/APoJ was 'gone' as some settings suggested, I'm not sure the Curse would be gone/lifted necessarily. It's possible that God's curse was in 'force' long enough that consensual belief treats it as the default situation because the idea is ingrained in the minds of so many humans at this point. IF we're going to do crossovers one way, no reason you can't borrow on Mage/Demon lore that way to keep it in effect. Or if you want an even more perverse idea.. what if the Curse only has power because the bearer believes it does? Maybe 'Caine' is so wracked with guilt/anger/pride/etc. that they won't consider the question honestly and thus their punishment is entirely self inflicted.)

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                              • #30
                                Honestly, i'm not even in the "Cain(e) actually exists" camp and have half a dozen alternate origins for the kindred in my chronicles anyway...

                                That said, i have had loads of fun by mashing Bloodlines' taxi driver & the Kapaneus references in Gehenna with the character from the Berlin by Night adventure. The Camarilla Inner's Circle is very divided between keeping censoring things about him or just outright stating he's an impostor (with no actual evidence either way) and throwing in the Red List, consequences be damned.
                                Last edited by Baaldam; 09-17-2020, 06:04 PM.

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