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[DA20] Flaming Weapon Ritual

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  • [DA20] Flaming Weapon Ritual

    Just to make sure I understand this ritual correctly (it's on 304 in the DA20 Corebook)

    Damage is rolled normally, so a Saber would do Strength + 2 + Net hits in damage dice, and they're ALL aggravated?

    Or is it that it only adds like 1 point of aggravated damage and all the rest remains lethal?

  • #2
    Hello! Yes, damage Is rolled normally and It Is All Aggravated.

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    • #3
      Ok, that's what I figured as well

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      • #4
        Consider using pre-revised soak rules (Vampires can soak aggravated with their stamina so long as that aggravated damage is not fire, sunlight or faith) if the weapon doing all-aggravated scares you. It's far more balanced that way.


        Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post
          Vampires can soak aggravated with their stamina so long as that aggravated damage is not fire, sunlight or faith
          Why...Why did they get rid of this? Revised all but neutered soak rolls for Vamps...

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          • #6
            I'm not entirely sure. Revised was a nerf time for a lot of things; paths were no longer viable for golconda, Diablerie was made more debilitating... I guess maybe they wanted vampires to feel more vulnerable. I do think they could have more strongly worded soak rules in V1/2 and potentially the revised soak rules are from a misunderstanding. The more pointed question is how did these revised fuck-ups not get worked out in V20? People often complain about 'being able to get aggravated damage at level 2 (protean claws, serpentis tongue, thaumaturgy sword) is overpowered and fortitidue is a shitty investment because it doesn't offer enough to protect yourself from such threats, but that's all because these powers were designed and balanced around vampires being able to soak such damage with their stamina as well as their fortitude.


            Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Gangrel44 View Post

              Why...Why did they get rid of this? Revised all but neutered soak rolls for Vamps...
              they wanted the possibility of vampires being viciously murdered, for horror points

              their official statement was that they wanted vampire to focus on politics and intrigue, combat was to be avoided and only resorted to as a last resort.

              that said, they did suggest allowing aggravated damage to be soaked with stamina should the story involve too much combat,
              and in mage, they suggested to allow soaking at higher difficulty (for cinematic combat and crossovers...cause garou were overpowered)


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              • #8
                Possibly because the combat system always was clunky, slow, messy and often unsatisfying...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Haquim View Post
                  Possibly because the combat system always was clunky, slow, messy and often unsatisfying...
                  the social systems were hardly any better...actually worse


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

                    the social systems were hardly any better...actually worse
                    The social system is PCs talking with NPCs most of the time, discipline use (or abuse) should not be the norm, especially in places like Elysium. Combat requires you to roll dices, and the ST system for that was simply bad. You got 4 dots in celerity? Then we wait for you to carefully plan all of your moves, split your actions and roll a bucket of dices. People used to lose interest pretty quickly, in my experience it was actually worse than summoner types in D&D.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Haquim View Post
                      Possibly because the combat system always was clunky, slow, messy and often unsatisfying...

                      There are many, many ways to speed it up without utterly gutting the balance. It also doesn't speed up most combat which doesn't involve aggravated weapons. A stupid decision by any full investigation.


                      Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post

                        It also doesn't speed up most combat which doesn't involve aggravated weapons.
                        aggravated damage wasn't that rare, and potean claws weren't that special, a torch was all you needed (or fangs)
                        only difference is protean claws don't shut under heavy rain, I guess
                        Last edited by Pleiades; 09-12-2020, 09:41 AM.


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                        • #13
                          When you attack mortals, aggravated doesn't even matter. when you are attacked my mortals, they are extremely unlikely to use a source of agravated damage (that isn't fire/faith)

                          (I'd argue a Flaming torch would be a bashing weapon that applies fire after the bashing damage)

                          The only thing it effects seriously is Vampire Vs Vampire or werewolf, and some vampires far more heavily than others. Even so most vampires are unlikely to use aggravated. Vampires lacking potence aren't likely to commit themselves to grab'n bite and most clans don't have an agravated weapon power.


                          Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MyWifeIsScary View Post


                            There are many, many ways to speed it up without utterly gutting the balance. It also doesn't speed up most combat which doesn't involve aggravated weapons. A stupid decision by any full investigation.
                            Yes, like telling the player "let's keep things going, with that many dices, aggravated damage and automatic success you kill everyone before thay got a chance to move". The old combat system was simply to easy to abuse (and also "rocket tag" as hell) with the very concrete risk of alienating players who did not optimize for combat (which basically meant 2 dots in protean, as much celerity as possible and then some potence as well OR go Thaumaturgy heavy).

                            Certainly antisocial player types who like to hog the spotlight spending 5 minutes declaring actions and rolling dices loved that system but it was just bad for group play and most combats risked feeling really unsatisfactory ("I roll dices, everything dies!").

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