Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

KotE's perspective on Kindred is weird.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I agree with CTPhipps. The relationship between Cainites and Wan Kuei in California is more like Cold War than Vampire Diaries (In Vampire Diaries they have a boarding school where all the different supernaturals can send their teens to hang out together).


    The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Pleiades View Post

      your point?
      The Kuei Jin talk a good game but the Kindred are winning.

      Weirdly, I feel like mentioning my Cobra Commander speech that I use when discussing new elements adding to settings:

      "You see, Cobra Commander was a joke among fans of the old Sunbow cartoon. He lost constantly, was always calling for retreat, and was deliberately portrayed as a coward. So they created Serpentor. However, the thing about Serpentor is that Serpentor was a joke too. He was upposed to be scarier and more intelligent but because it was a cartoon he was always losing. Cobra Commander thus actually looked better by comparison and you rooted for him to eventually take back Cobra and kick Serpentor's ass. I feel that this is the nature of the Kuei-Jin and Kindred conflict. They introduced the Kindred kicking the ass of the Anarchs and building an Empire in California but all it did was make the Anarchs look cool and relatable."
      Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-16-2020, 09:01 PM.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

      Comment


      • #18
        It seems to me that if the Wan Kuei got a V20 or V5 overhaul they would probably fix the discrepancies is discipline cost and, as far as V20 goes, cleaning up those 5+ level powers. Also possibly the attribute spread for skills and disciplines as well.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by omenseer View Post
          It seems to me that if the Wan Kuei got a V20 or V5 overhaul they would probably fix the discrepancies is discipline cost and, as far as V20 goes, cleaning up those 5+ level powers. Also possibly the attribute spread for skills and disciplines as well.
          Honestly, I don't see a reason for Kuei-jin to be any more involved in Kindred affairs than vampires and werewolves.

          Yes, Lupines knock on vampire doors on occassion but they mostly just avoid each other.


          Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

            Honestly, I don't see a reason for Kuei-jin to be any more involved in Kindred affairs than vampires and werewolves.

            Yes, Lupines knock on vampire doors on occassion but they mostly just avoid each other.
            How do you think the Great Leap Outward should eventually be resolved?


            The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Penelope View Post

              How do you think the Great Leap Outward should eventually be resolved?


              In my campaigns, I had the Great Leap Outward revealed as a Kuei-Jin version of the song "Fortunate Son." The Kuei-Jin elders noticed that a lot of modern Kuei-Jin were arriving that didn't have particularly spiritual or sufficiently differential to elders' hearts due to being born in the era of communism and materialism so they created a fake Crusade designed to send them off to war against the Western Devils in a transparently racist conflict designed to get them out of the way. It was also a way that they betrayed their dharma because these guys are SUPPOSED to be fighting against demons as well as their reinforcements against the Yama Kings.

              The Great Leap Outward resulted in a bunch of Anarchs being killed but the Kuei-Jin were unable to hold territory because, of course, their superiors didn't care if they lived or died. It actually did benefit the Anarchs because the Free States were never united so much as they had an enemy on their doorstep. The Los Angeles Ripper (as I called the protagonist of Bloodlines) killed La Croix and Ming Xiao, causing Los Angeles to be taken back from the Kuei Jin and eventually Vannevar Thomas liberated San Fransico and became Prince again.

              The surviving KJ of California feel incredibly betrayed by their Elders and have since acclimated into the social landscape, abandoned and cut off from returning. Some have joined the Anarchs and plot their return. Others are just getting by.


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post



                In my campaigns, I had the Great Leap Outward revealed as a Kuei-Jin version of the song "Fortunate Son." The Kuei-Jin elders noticed that a lot of modern Kuei-Jin were arriving that didn't have particularly spiritual or sufficiently differential to elders' hearts due to being born in the era of communism and materialism so they created a fake Crusade designed to send them off to war against the Western Devils in a transparently racist conflict designed to get them out of the way. It was also a way that they betrayed their dharma because these guys are SUPPOSED to be fighting against demons as well as their reinforcements against the Yama Kings.

                The Great Leap Outward resulted in a bunch of Anarchs being killed but the Kuei-Jin were unable to hold territory because, of course, their superiors didn't care if they lived or died. It actually did benefit the Anarchs because the Free States were never united so much as they had an enemy on their doorstep. The Los Angeles Ripper (as I called the protagonist of Bloodlines) killed La Croix and Ming Xiao, causing Los Angeles to be taken back from the Kuei Jin and eventually Vannevar Thomas liberated San Fransico and became Prince again.

                The surviving KJ of California feel incredibly betrayed by their Elders and have since acclimated into the social landscape, abandoned and cut off from returning. Some have joined the Anarchs and plot their return. Others are just getting by.
                I like the song. Totally ties into the campaign theme.


                The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

                Comment


                • #23
                  Vietnamese Kuei-jin note the irony.


                  Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                    Vietnamese Kuei-jin note the irony.
                    Cause the song was about Vietnam 😊


                    The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                      Honestly, I don't see a reason for Kuei-jin to be any more involved in Kindred affairs than vampires and werewolves.

                      Yes, Lupines knock on vampire doors on occassion but they mostly just avoid each other.
                      I was speaking from a purely mechanical standpoint.

                      One could argue, on a meta level, that they are bound to be involved with each at some points due to the publication history that has come before.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                        Honestly, I don't see a reason for Kuei-jin to be any more involved in Kindred affairs than vampires and werewolves.

                        Yes, Lupines knock on vampire doors on occassion but they mostly just avoid each other.

                        Lupines do not live in cities (for the most), do not hunt the same resources and are not the secret powers behind hostile organizations.

                        The clash between Kindred and Kue-Jin is inevitable, they are the same kind of predator, and they occupy the same ecological niche. A Lupine living in a city does not compete for resources with the local vampires, a Kue-jin on the other hands is another blood-sucker hunting on your ground.

                        Even more, the fight will occur for the same reason there is now a cold-war between China and United States: because China is a rising dragon and the west will not cede the scepter. Are the european and american elders ready to lose their influence in favor of Chinese or Indian ancestors? Are the Ventrue ready to lose their power over the economy because Shanghai is becoming a more important market than Wall Street? And how will the American Cainites answer to the attack that China is moving against the supremacy of the Dollar as the reserve currency of the world? The Methuselahs of Europe will accept that the decisions of western governments can be influenced by Far-East diplomacy and interests?

                        This is not the middle age. Isolation is over; influence, power and economics are not contained by geographical distances or country borders anymore.

                        Ah, not that before the current days distance was a factor anyhow: Tzimisce and Ventrue didn't share ground, and yet opposing interests pushed the Holy Roman Empire's Ventrue to wage war against the Tzimisce's Voivodate. Muslim and Christian kindreds were kept apart in Spain, and each had its score of cities where they could hunt without stumbling in each other, but that didn't stopped the Lasombra involved in the Shadow Reconquista. Brujah and Ventrue had the whole Mediterrean Sea to divide them, but that didn't stop one of the greatest undead conflict of the history. The Sabbat was living happily ever after in the New World after the Anarch revolt, but then the Camarilla's Elders understood that the new continent was ripe for the taking and full of resources, and America became the biggest battlefield of the Sect Wars.


                        They will fight for the same reasons vampires always fight: because they need blood and herds to survive, because they share the same kind of habitat, because there are old grudges that all the parties involved remember quite well and because the growing influence and political power of the pawns of one faction will go inevitably to the detriment of the other.
                        Last edited by Undead rabbit; 09-17-2020, 05:01 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I have discussed two splats many times. Another tip: Wan Gui don't have effecient and direct mind-control powers like Kindred, they must be more careful to keep Scarlet Screen (KotE's Masuqerade). This is mentioned in Shadow War

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                            My take on the subject is that Ming Xiao utterly screwed up any potential alliance. Their Imperial Japanese Police State rulership of San Fransisco also probably went over like a lead balloon.

                            The Stairway to Heaven they got out of this was of a most underwhelming sort, for sure....

                            Originally posted by Undead rabbit View Post


                            Lupines do not live in cities (for the most), do not hunt the same resources and are not the secret powers behind hostile organizations.

                            The clash between Kindred and Kue-Jin is inevitable, they are the same kind of predator, and they occupy the same ecological niche. A Lupine living in a city does not compete for resources with the local vampires, a Kue-jin on the other hands is another blood-sucker hunting on your ground.

                            Even more, the fight will occur for the same reason there is now a cold-war between China and United States: because China is a rising dragon and the west will not cede the scepter. Are the european and american elders ready to lose their influence in favor of Chinese or Indian ancestors? Are the Ventrue ready to lose their power over the economy because Shanghai is becoming a more important market than Wall Street? And how will the American Cainites answer to the attack that China is moving against the supremacy of the Dollar as the reserve currency of the world? The Methuselahs of Europe will accept that the decisions of western governments can be influenced by Far-East diplomacy and interests?

                            This is not the middle age. Isolation is over; influence, power and economics are not contained by geographical distances or country borders anymore.

                            Ah, not that before the current days distance was a factor anyhow: Tzimisce and Ventrue didn't share ground, and yet opposing interests pushed the Holy Roman Empire's Ventrue to wage war against the Tzimisce's Voivodate. Muslim and Christian kindreds were kept apart in Spain, and each had its score of cities where they could hunt without stumbling in each other, but that didn't stopped the Lasombra involved in the Shadow Reconquista. Brujah and Ventrue had the whole Mediterrean Sea to divide them, but that didn't stop one of the greatest undead conflict of the history. The Sabbat was living happily ever after in the New World after the Anarch revolt, but then the Camarilla's Elders understood that the new continent was ripe for the taking and full of resources, and America became the biggest battlefield of the Sect Wars.


                            They will fight for the same reasons vampires always fight: because they need blood and herds to survive, because they share the same kind of habitat, because there are old grudges that all the parties involved remember quite well and because the growing influence and political power of the pawns of one faction will go inevitably to the detriment of the other.

                            Indeed. This comes to mind in fact.

                            Kind of tempted to make an "East x West" game just for the Led playlist now...
                            Last edited by Baaldam; 09-17-2020, 05:39 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                              Honestly, I don't see a reason for Kuei-jin to be any more involved in Kindred affairs than vampires and werewolves.

                              Yes, Lupines knock on vampire doors on occassion but they mostly just avoid each other.
                              The Kuei-jin courts canonically have so much contact with eastern werewolves, mages, and fey that calling their core rulebook "Kindred of the East" looks like a cynical sales-boosting deception in hindsight. They should have been allowed to be their own thing instead of New and Improved Diet Baja Blast Kindred.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                About Demon Arts, it is much harder to use than you think. Their levels are limited to P’o rating, and you must roll against P’o difficulty to use every time

                                For example, a boddhisattva wants to use Black Wind 9 (!), so he must have P’o 9 at least, and each time he uses he must roll against difficulty 9, at least, to avoid negative state

                                Of course if you have Cultivation 5, then you don’t need to worry about P’o
                                but a level 5 Wan Gui power is expensive

                                Good luck Devil-Tiger
                                Last edited by Rock113; 09-18-2020, 02:09 AM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X