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So about the antediluvians

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  • So about the antediluvians

    What are they up to currently are they just wandering around the modern world going about their business or what

  • #2
    Caine is running the Uber company
    Lilith is developing the 5th edition of VtM
    Malkav invented the TikTok app
    Arikel is probably transfixed on a deviantart page or something

    as for the rest... since no other country has been nuked by the technocracy since bengladesh, it's safe to assume they've successfully hidden from the inquisition,
    or maybe the wars in Libya and Syria were Troile and Haqim getting nuked, I don't know


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    • #3
      Here is an idea I tossed around what if Caine’s power wanes proportional to the Number of Cainites. We know Ravnos felt every Ravnos Death when he was in Torpor so what if Caine was like that? And what if Caine became senile as he suffered the withering? So now maybe he is essentially an immortal hobo with a high level of Arcane? And maybe can die from a bunch of Drunken Soccer Hooligans but he revives at midnight, and anyone who killed him are cursed to suffer proportional to their contribution to his death.


      It is a time for great deeds!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by the viking anarch View Post
        What are they up to currently are they just wandering around the modern world going about their business or what
        Torpor.

        When they wake up, the world ends.

        Except Tzimisce and Lasombra who aren't vampires anymore.


        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
          Except Tzimisce and Lasombra who aren't vampires anymore.
          I would add Malkav to that list.

          Originally posted by Pleiades View Post
          Arikel is probably transfixed on a deviantart page or something
          That is great, but I think Caine is just a cab driver and Lilith is running an Uber service to spite him.

          Most of the surviving antediluvians that are still vampires - Nosferatu, Haqim, Arikel, Ennoia - are in torpor.

          Some are no longer vampires strictly speaking - Lasombra, Tzimisce, Malkav - and are active but remote and utterly alien at this point.

          Some are long gone - Ventrue, Set, Ravnos and apparently Cappadocius.

          Some are bound in some manner - Troile, locked in some manner under the Carthage ruins.

          Whatever is going on with Tremere and the two versions of Saulot is anyone guess.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

            That is great, but I think Caine is just a cab driver and Lilith is running an Uber service to spite him.
            yeah that would make more sense


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post

              Some are long gone - Ventrue, Set, Ravnos and apparently Cappadocius.
              Ventrue is still up for debate. The writers of gehenna wrote them off as dead during a time-frame before a number of ventrue 4th gens were embraced(not just mithras), so unless the ventrue ante can also time-travel it's dead is contradictory to cannon(which is honestly nothing new).

              I'm personally in the "Ventrue is most likely alive" camp. The Ante has master of dominate and presence, so a mass mind-wipe similar to Lambrosa's "diablerie" is still in the cards. Same with Ravnos/Zapathasura, but replace with Chimerstry.

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              • #8
                This isn't canon but I've flat out stated in my games (via Kupala and other beings who KNOW) that the Antediluvians are immortal-immortal. If you kill one of them then as long as they have a descendant then they reincarnate in them like Voldemort and his horucruxes.

                They can also possess any of their childer anytime they wish at any point they wish.

                It actually was an interesting thing because it caused the player characters to discuss whether the only option is to finish off an entire clan or try to keep them asleep like the Groundskeepers.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                  This isn't canon but I've flat out stated in my games (via Kupala and other beings who KNOW) that the Antediluvians are immortal-immortal. If you kill one of them then as long as they have a descendant then they reincarnate in them like Voldemort and his horucruxes.

                  They can also possess any of their childer anytime they wish at any point they wish.

                  It actually was an interesting thing because it caused the player characters to discuss whether the only option is to finish off an entire clan or try to keep them asleep like the Groundskeepers.
                  That's an interesting take. I ran something similar in the the Ante's were capital-I "Immortal" creatures that only went into torpor if they were downed. The only way to get rid of one was to diablerize it and take it's place, with the side effect of slowly inheriting the memories of the diablerized party and everyone they've ever diablerized. By modern nights, repeated diableries both ways had turned the Antes into walking conglomerates of souls and fractured memories rather than individuals, all of whom are desperately trying to find a way Out of being vampires and/or immortal in general.

                  This was just a one off, but my players actually pulled back and left the "Big Bad" ante alone after learning that. Their reasoning being the power wasn't worth it and the guy probably hated their life more than any of them could accomplish in their revenge scheme.

                  (This was also why Antes were often refered to by or refered to themselves as their clan, because their host likely forgot their old name by the time they could enforce that claim and had become what was essentially an unliving avatar of the clan itself)
                  Last edited by Prometheas; 09-26-2020, 01:04 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Cool take!

                    My "Antediluvians are unkillable as long as they have descendants" actually put a different spin on the Ravnos Antediluvian. It had entered wassail but was aware enough that it wanted to commit suicide. So, it killed millions of people in hopes that someone would destroy it and then ordered its descendants to kill each other in hopes that it would be able to deliver it Final Death. The surviving Ravnos are now Caitiff because they're PRETTY SURE that the consciousness inside their blood is dead-dead.

                    The Beast overwhelming the Clan Founders is also the reason that so many of them are seeking Transhumanism.

                    Gehenna isn't some epic grand master plan for them. It's when they lose their fight to their Beasts and then they just devour every vampire and then every human on Earth because they're insatiable rage monsters.

                    It's something the ANTEDILUVIANS fear.

                    Ceasing to be vampires is the only way they figure they can escape such a horrifying end to themselves as well as humanity.

                    I thought this was a good idea because it actually makes the fundamental conflict between Humanity and the Beast central to the mythos.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #11
                      Maybe the true curse of Caine on them was immortality and everything else - the specific clan banes - are just so much set dressing and costumes. Maybe he decided if he cannot die, neither can they.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
                        Maybe the true curse of Caine on them was immortality and everything else - the specific clan banes - are just so much set dressing and costumes. Maybe he decided if he cannot die, neither can they.
                        Indeed.

                        Of course, not ALL Ravnos were killed. Maybe he just delayed his resurrection.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                        • #13
                          Well we saw on Saulot Tremere and earlier on Brujah Troille, that it is possible that someones Diablerize an Ante and so still both being alive and Gen 3.


                          As I am from Austria I need to clarify two things.
                          First my native language is german and so please point out if the english I write is broken so I can improve.
                          Second I do not own VTMV nor any line after M20 because it is not out there and I wait for the translation.

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                          • #14
                            At the end of Revised, before publishing Requiem, White Wold did reveal the notes they had kept on the status of the various Antediluvians. So up to the start of V20, this was it:

                            Assamites -Haquim: Ur-Shulgi is its avatar.

                            Brujah -Troile/Brujah: Rumors about its death are unconfirmed

                            Followers of Set -Set/Typhoon: Dead. Attempts to bring it back likely to backfire horribly.

                            Gangrel -Ennoia: Active. May have earth melded with the world. Possibly burned to death in the molten heart of the world, but probably a force of nature now rather than a vampire. Active without going into torpor for an inordinate amount of time through history.

                            Giovanni -Augustus: Active, and possessed of the greatest ego among the Antediluvians.

                            Lasombra: Diablerized in the 14th century. A brute. Whatever is in the Abyss is not a vampire any more. (Personal speculation: Its shadow?)

                            Malkavians -Malkav: Is the madness network.

                            Nosferatu -Absimilliard: In Antarctica or on the bottom of the ocean. So ugly he is hated on a subconscious level by humanity as a whole. Suicidal but with the wight of the worlds hatred so heavy on him that he does not have the will to end it. An alternate theory was also supported: Absimilliard is 4rth generation and the fall guy for the real monster whose mastery of Obfuscate is such that none remember it.

                            Ravnos: Dead.

                            Torador: No further information.

                            Tremere: Saulot is in Tremere, Tremere is in Goratrix, Goratrix is in a mirror, and Tzimisce wants to be in Tremere, intiating a clash with Saulot before Saulot is ready.

                            Tzimisce: Dead -ish. The thing below New York is a sort of Vicissitude animated Zombie. Tzimize wants to return in Tremeres body. (Personal speculation: Being dead provides some protection from Valeren.

                            Ventrue -Ventru: Dead and powerless long ages ago.

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                            • #15
                              Trollroot I'd say that's my favorite version, except for the Tremere threesome,
                              antediluvians cheating their death/diablerie or resurrecting is exhausting


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