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  • the viking anarch
    started a topic So about the antediluvians

    So about the antediluvians

    What are they up to currently are they just wandering around the modern world going about their business or what

  • CTPhipps
    replied
    I think there's an interesting backstory for the True Brujah that they are just pretenders to the "original Brujah" lineage and that they have forcibly removed their Beasts from themselves to cast it into the ruins of Carthage because their passions destroyed said city.

    I don't remember who suggested this.

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  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Prometheas View Post

    Wish they'd been the carthaginian brujah instead. There's already plenty of narrative reason for a collection of brujah elders and methusela to hate the ventrue and camerilla by extension. Carthage is also where their antedeluvian is sealed, so having their ante be an inceptor who's knowledge was lost when Carthage fell(and regained later) would work fine to explain Temporis.

    Could be, but myself i tend to associate Temporis with the backstory of Petaniqua (the original one, not the V20 version), where she tells of a cabal of so-called True Brujah that hid her & her sire Cybele for a time, would tell her stories of a cave where time itself was imprisoned in part and they studied its mysteries - until they disappeared, along with her sire and any signs of the bond she previously had. Did those so-called children of Brujah diablerize the ancient to refine their capacity to shape time through the Blood, did Cybele join them and was changed through it or something else entirely happen?

    That came up about a year before DSotB, if memory tricks me not, but checking Kindred Most Wanted might be better if one is in the mood for old stuff reading.

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  • Prometheas
    replied
    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
    Overall i don't really delve on the subject, except when in the mood to mess around with the lore in some twisted way - and even then i usually go with Antes of dubious provenance like Lucian, Loz or whoever. No clearly recognizable clan founders for anyone, ever.

    Ah, and the Temporis Brujah are wrong about their origins. The Temporis Brujah are always wrong about their origins....
    Wish they'd been the carthaginian brujah instead. There's already plenty of narrative reason for a collection of brujah elders and methusela to hate the ventrue and camerilla by extension. Carthage is also where their antedeluvian is sealed, so having their ante be an inceptor who's knowledge was lost when Carthage fell(and regained later) would work fine to explain Temporis.

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  • Baaldam
    replied
    Overall i don't really delve on the subject, except when in the mood to mess around with the lore in some twisted way - and even then i usually go with Antes of dubious provenance like Lucian, Loz or whoever. No clearly recognizable clan founders for anyone, ever.

    Ah, and the Temporis Brujah are wrong about their origins. The Temporis Brujah are always wrong about their origins....

    Leave a comment:


  • Trollroot
    replied
    While weaker, I believe Augustus does not yet suffer from Methuselah Thirst. (He is probably due, but I am not sure if he is actually a methuselah by age yet, even) He is also young enough that he does not go into the ages of torpor the true Antediluvians do. I think these things may be advantages or function like catchup mechanisms in the Jyhad. Allowing him to make active moves and fuel himself and his powers with little difficulty. Acquiring these advantages may have been what Saulot was looking for with Tremere.

    On the Endless Night thing...I don't think thats his idea. He thinks its his idea, and the Giovanni does not question Uncle Auggies idea. But I think its external to him. He still thinks the True Vessel contains Cappadocious blood after all.

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  • Natsymir
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    It's hard to see Augustus as a plucky underdog when he engages in rampant child abuse and incest. Also, being the weakest Antediluvian is also something that I feel should have some payoff. Tremere is a genius who managed to engage with gods and win. I feel like Augustus is a character that having the big plans to become a God and fail is something that makes his story arc interesting. It's also a bit late to make an interesting character out of him since we know his canonical plans were to murder everyone in the world via the Endless Night.

    Basically, he's not an alien Cthulhuoid abomination, he's just a disgusting pervert and murderer.
    Can't he be a disgusting pervert and murderer and at the same time an alien Chtulhuoid abominatin-in-being? It's not like the other antediluvians are less vile. I never claimed he was plucky, but one can be an underdog while still being abusive and incestous. However, I do agree that failure can be interesting of course - I would just do it somewhat differently. The Endless Night would be a super-cool climax for my imagined Giovanni chronicle, and if things go the PCs way, presumably Augustus would somehow fail with his plan and be destroyed or broken. But I don't know enough about the recent Vampire lore to say whether it's too late to make something interesting out of him or not, I'm not really up to speed since V20. You might be right.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Natsymir View Post

    I kinda like the idea of a mere banker and hedge mage who, through relentless manipulation and greed, managed to make himself a god. I think it's a more compelling concept than a super-powerful über-mage who managed to do the same. I don't like this strain of Vampire fandom who just wanna kill Augusts off because he should be the weakest of the antediluvians - wouldn't that rather be a quality that makes him interesting? I can't see why it would make him less interesting than the other antediluvians in any way - quite the opposite. He might be weak, in their terms, but he would also be more in touch with the world, and run his whole clan in a moderately well-functioning top-down-hierarchy, and have vast command over death itself. Much more interesting things could be done with this figure than just kill him, and his whole clan, off. V5 did Giovanni a great disservice, to my mind.
    It's hard to see Augustus as a plucky underdog when he engages in rampant child abuse and incest. Also, being the weakest Antediluvian is also something that I feel should have some payoff. Tremere is a genius who managed to engage with gods and win. I feel like Augustus is a character that having the big plans to become a God and fail is something that makes his story arc interesting. It's also a bit late to make an interesting character out of him since we know his canonical plans were to murder everyone in the world via the Endless Night.

    Basically, he's not an alien Cthulhuoid abomination, he's just a disgusting pervert and murderer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Natsymir
    replied
    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

    To be fair, Augustus is someone I don't think anyone could take seriously versus Japeth/Lazarus. He's not even Tremere, who was an Archmage before his transformation. He's just a banker and hedge mage who was literally handed godhood.

    Someone needs to take him off the board.
    I kinda like the idea of a mere banker and hedge mage who, through relentless manipulation and greed, managed to make himself a god. I think it's a more compelling concept than a super-powerful über-mage who managed to do the same. I don't like this strain of Vampire fandom who just wanna kill Augusts off because he should be the weakest of the antediluvians - wouldn't that rather be a quality that makes him interesting? I can't see why it would make him less interesting than the other antediluvians in any way - quite the opposite. He might be weak, in their terms, but he would also be more in touch with the world, and run his whole clan in a moderately well-functioning top-down-hierarchy, and have vast command over death itself. Much more interesting things could be done with this figure than just kill him, and his whole clan, off. V5 did Giovanni a great disservice, to my mind.
    Last edited by Natsymir; 09-28-2020, 09:59 PM.

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  • CTPhipps
    replied
    Originally posted by Natsymir View Post
    The Beckoning in V5 puts the antediluvians in a new and interesting light, especially if you, like me, don't use the Hecata and/or the inquisition, but run with the idea that Augustus is alive and kicking, and possible Tremere too. If the Beckoning truly is the antediluvians' call to battle, what does it mean for these very young antediluvians and their descendants? I haven't figured that out, as it won't be relevant in my current chronicle, but it feels like it could make for a very interesting, and possibly quite epic, Giovanni-centered story later on. What a terrific villain Augustus could make for the player characters in such a story. I really like the Giovanni because I find the idea of a vampire-infested mortal dynasty who've been used as puppets by their hidden, hoary vampire ancestors for centuries extremely interesting, so I hope I can get my players to agree to playing only Giovanni characters so I can one day run an epic campaign about that clan and their fate.
    To be fair, Augustus is someone I don't think anyone could take seriously versus Japeth/Lazarus. He's not even Tremere, who was an Archmage before his transformation. He's just a banker and hedge mage who was literally handed godhood.

    Someone needs to take him off the board.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-28-2020, 08:40 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Natsymir
    replied
    The Beckoning in V5 puts the antediluvians in a new and interesting light, especially if you, like me, don't use the Hecata and/or the inquisition, but run with the idea that Augustus is alive and kicking, and possible Tremere too. If the Beckoning truly is the antediluvians' call to battle, what does it mean for these very young antediluvians and their descendants? I haven't figured that out, as it won't be relevant in my current chronicle, but it feels like it could make for a very interesting, and possibly quite epic, Giovanni-centered story later on. What a terrific villain Augustus could make for the player characters in such a story. I really like the Giovanni because I find the idea of a vampire-infested mortal dynasty who've been used as puppets by their hidden, hoary vampire ancestors for centuries extremely interesting, so I hope I can get my players to agree to playing only Giovanni characters so I can one day run an epic campaign about that clan and their fate.
    Last edited by Natsymir; 09-28-2020, 06:53 PM.

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  • Mister_Dunpeal
    replied
    well if we're including 5th edition I'd say they're either still acting out the current vampiric 'cycle' mentioned since 1st edition, or its ended and they've gone back into hibernation. It could even be a bit of both and as mentioned already some may not even be in their original bodies or have become something else entirely. How open or covert the activities are may depend on the Antediluvian in question and what they're goals/motives/interests are (remember there may not be only 13 of them. There could be more.. or less. And there could always be Caine and possibly the Second Generation around, too...)

    Leave a comment:


  • Gryffon15
    replied
    I tend to run them as something akin to the Old Gods of Cosmic Horror stories. They are all sleeping and yet even passively they shape the world around them and connect to those they have sympathetic bonds with.

    Haqim/Assam - While he is one of the antediluvians I’m more tempted to have walking around, I usually run him as dwelling within the Heartblood of Alamut and Clan Assamite/Banu Haqim where he can philosophize in his sleep and grow in sanguine power while fed by his children, learning and growing with new blood. The recent rising may have been a machination of his or he might find himself becoming irked into consciousness.

    Brujah/Troile/Illyes - These two lovers are wrapped up in a temporal slip but their consciousnesses bleed into those around them; the Brujah still burn with Troile’s rage and frustration at their predicament while the Trujah are locked in a forced state of calm to maintain their existence and stave off knowing frustration. The territory around Carthage is a maelstrom of passion and at times the thoughts of the sleeping gods tear through their clans like fevers.

    Gangrel/Ennoia - Sleeping within the earth, melded with the beating of its molten heart and the breath of its living world, Mother Ennoia slumbers below the surface of the world. Occasionally she spawns great beasts or whispers to her children. Lullabies of survival and the bloody hunt. A reminder that they will run with her at the end of the world or feed her children’s appetites.

    Set/Sutekh - Lost in shadow, wrapped in darkness, something of Sutekh remains in his clan’s shadows. The old god of the red sands has danced with Apophis and may have found a path towards gnostic enlightenment. Only those who have released themselves to the darkness and found the truth at the core of each Settite’s temple can know for sure.

    [Lasombra] - While their body may slumber in a forgotten sicilian crypt or at the bottom of the Aegean Sea, the soul swims through the infinite night, the ocean of shadow. Within every pool of darkness, you might find ripples of the Dark One’s stirrings.

    Malkav - Whether torn apart by his children, devoured, whether bled or buried under Jerusalem; the mad one remains. A storm of madness connects the minds of his children and the old one lives within the demented mind of those infected by his search for the terrible truths

    Nosfetatu/Absamiliard - Whether buried in the deepest trenches, the Sahara, or Antarctica; the wretched one hides from the world and can never be found. Yet their horrible ichor flows still and twists everything it touches as the shadow war for his birthright yet wages.

    Ravnos - Perhaps the sleeping one dreams itself back to life... perhaps it dreamed itself away from life... only those who can look past the drawn veils can truly say.

    Toreador/Akriel - Laid to rest in some lovely catacomb in France, Greece, or Egypt; the sculpting one looks through the senses of their children and drinks the world as they would drink blood. By their whims beauty is determined and for centuries they gaze upon beloved things and wither them with the hungry stare.

    Tzimisce/The Eldest - giving up the body in the name of true metamorphosis, The Eldest lives through their clan and the guiding principle of transcendence, seeking to achieve the highest form of existence through alchemy of the worlds spirit and flesh

    Ventru/Ventrue - The sleeping lord still rules over their children and guides them with their dreams of power and machination stirring only occasionally to take the reins and do what must be done

    What of the Pale One and the Triclops? The fruit of their great endeavors are still yet to fully by seen.

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  • No One of Consequence
    replied
    Originally posted by the viking anarch View Post
    What are they up to currently are they just wandering around the modern world going about their business or what
    In my games, mostly sleeping. That which is undead can eternal lie, in its house darkly dreaming.

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  • Leandro16
    replied
    I always assumed that arikel/toreador is paralized in torpor observating the beuty of the world throught the eyes of his clan members.

    She may even be a good guy per antedeluvian standards as in my head cannon she just wants the humanity to survive becuase our ability to create is divine in his eyes.
    Last edited by Leandro16; 09-26-2020, 06:54 PM.

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