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(spoilers) oblivion in shadows of New York

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  • (spoilers) oblivion in shadows of New York

    since I'm not not very familiar with WtO and Orpheus, I could use some clarifications about some things about oblivion in VtM: Shadows of NY

    - Julia sees different types of ghosts, but what about the ones that help her and the ones that interract with her in the dark room?
    are they regular wraiths? spectres? something else?

    - at the beginning of the game, there's a scene where someone/something speaks of her domain where mundane logic doesn't apply,
    at another point, the ghosts whisper to Julia that "this is "her" domain" or something,
    are those refering to the Greatmother (or great maw)?

    - how do you explain the dark room Julia finds herself in, where she talks with the spectres(??),
    is she getting devoured by oblivion or something?


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  • #2
    I haven't played Shadows of New York at all, but as one of the only fans of WTO I'll guess I will try and help you out with the information you've given.

    1)-That's actually a very tough question. What you describe is mostly likely to be a Wraith (e.i the non "Shadow-Eaten" denizens of the Low-Umbra) since they are the ones who can have relatively normal discourse once contacted- but Spectres despite the majority being entities of pure malice and destruction can be very smart and measured at times to achieve their goals. Though it unless definitively identified, it's safe to assume that the ghost you mention may just be a regular Wraith.

    2)- "there's a scene where someone/something speaks of her domain where mundane logic doesn't apply" - what could be referenced here might be the Shadowlands, and by extension, the Low Umbra itself and its complex metaphysicalities. It is very unlikely its to any relation to the Greatmother concept from Orpheus.

    3)- The dark room you speak of could be a room host to a Nihil. Like many other Umbras, the Low Umbra is divided in ways of its "main" portion relative to its "mirror" portion that juxtaposes the "real world." Nihils are the main entry point for Spectres with no longer functioning or with no Fetters at all to reenter the "Shadowlands," the name for the division of the Low Umbra that mirrors the physical world. It's to note that regular Wraiths also utilize a type of nihil called Byways, with the only differentiation that Byways are artificially constructed and maintained by active polities (mostly Stygia and the Jade Kingdom) to facilitate commercial and military transport to and from the clamorous Tempest of the main Underworld to the Shadowlands. Nihils are formed in areas of great tragedy, sadness, hatred, or anywhere where the ambient angst allows the spontaneous tear of the local Shadowlands; which ushers in the allowance of Spectres to invade it as mentioned before.

    Generally any place that is host to Nihil from its Shadowland counterpart will take on a deathly and general sense of morbidity around the area.


    Jade Kingdom Warrior

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    • #3
      Like spectures can play friendly to accomplish their goals.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
        Like spectures can play friendly to accomplish their goals.
        can't tell if they're friendly or not, they talk weird,
        and they seem to want to drag the character into oblivion, even the game description suggests that,
        they also change one dialogue depending if your character is a buly or not


        Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
        I haven't played Shadows of New York at all, but as one of the only fans of WTO I'll guess I will try and help you out with the information you've given.

        1)-That's actually a very tough question. What you describe is mostly likely to be a Wraith (e.i the non "Shadow-Eaten" denizens of the Low-Umbra) since they are the ones who can have relatively normal discourse once contacted- but Spectres despite the majority being entities of pure malice and destruction can be very smart and measured at times to achieve their goals. Though it unless definitively identified, it's safe to assume that the ghost you mention may just be a regular Wraith.
        well, if you don't mind more spoilers, these are relevant images I got




        in the first one it clearly says spectre, found in a nightclub

        second one is in the dark room I was mentioning, there's several ghosts in it, they speak weird, not sure what they are

        3)- The dark room you speak of could be a room host to a Nihil.
        how would a vampire end up (unwillingly) in the room?
        can the ghosts drag you inside it? or through a dream?

        also, thank you for the detailed response
        Last edited by Pleiades; 09-24-2020, 05:11 PM.


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        • #5
          The second picture is definitely one displaying Spectres of somesort. "Regular" Wraiths would be much more "normal" unlike the things I see displayed here. Though it is odd they aren't hostile... and then again, Spectres aren't pitch (mostly) black like this with no wacky sadistic lean to them.. Usually they have chaotic varied appearances such as multiple pustules, large hands, exaggerated features, misshapen bodies, stitches, weird things sticking out and in them, jagged claws, wearing improvised clothes and armor, etc. Some can look just completely normal (Doppelgangers) and you'd never know before its too late. Here they just have no creative definition to their look at all. A few liberties probably were taken in this game to depict them.

          Now being dragged into the room unwillingly? There are many ways in the form of Arcanoi; Puppetry is one way where the Spectre, as the name of the ability clues, allows it to possess any entity in the "Skinlands" (the name for what the denizens of the Low Umbra call the "real" world or the living world from when they were alive) to move where it pleases. Another way for a Spectre to force the character into a room can maybe just be done simply using the Arcanoi Embody, an ability that allows Low Umbric entities (whether Wraith or Spectre that knows the ability) to manifest in places where the Shroud is very weak (generally places of dark brooding atmosphere or places perceived to be that way) into the Skinlands that allows them to directly interact with things.

          Now as far as being dragged into a Nihil? I remember vaguely that in Wr20 parts of the Arcanoi called Outrage was amended to allow physical people from the Skinlands to be dragged into the Shadowlands- but I don't remember it well since I stick with Wraith 2ed mostly. Beyond that I don't think the character can be dragged into the Nihil unless they are versed with Necromancy and can get into the Low Umbra. For sure however one of the Arcanoi called Phantasm as its level 5 ability allows the user to rip out persons soul, leaving their physical bodies catatonic and their soul in the Shadowlands. This only works on mortals however.


          Jade Kingdom Warrior

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          • #6
            I don't think our heroine possesses the ability to see ghosts in their ACTUAL form. She just can make their outline out through her Eyes of the Abyss.

            I'm fairly sure one of the Wraiths is Boss Callihan, though.

            Another is probably Agathon as I think the game implies he committed suicide.


            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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            • #7
              Agathon is miss in action, but not necessary dead. It depends, if you pick glass half full, Julia holds the hope he is still alive.

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