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What did Kupula want?

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  • What did Kupula want?

    According to House of Tremere, Saulot and Kupula manipulated the magi Tremere into moving to the Carpathians and into becoming vampires.

    Saulot apparently did this as part of his evolution in power and pursuit of his larger goals, to either become the demon emperor or wake Caine, or both.

    But what did Kupula gain from the move? What was Kupula after in manipulating the Tremere magi? Was it working with Saulot, or did they both just target the wizards on their own?



  • #2
    Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
    According to House of Tremere, Saulot and Kupula manipulated the magi Tremere into moving to the Carpathians and into becoming vampires.

    Saulot apparently did this as part of his evolution in power and pursuit of his larger goals, to either become the demon emperor or wake Caine, or both.

    But what did Kupula gain from the move? What was Kupula after in manipulating the Tremere magi? Was it working with Saulot, or did they both just target the wizards on their own?

    Well, Kupala is an Earthbound so presumably the answer is evil. The destruction of the Salubri as a Clan is worth it by itself given it seals off many vampires from redemption.

    I admit, in my version of the Transylvania Chronicles, I actively substitute Kupala for the "Evil Saulot" that the book keeps trying to push. I am debating making Kupala a Luciferiean, though, so she's not completely one-dimensional.
    Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-27-2020, 12:08 PM.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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    • #3
      I wonder if Kupula was trying to get someone to attack the Tzimisce - maybe the demon was trying to distract the vampire, to weaken the vampire so the demon could get out of the deal it has with the vampire.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Grumpy RPG Reviews View Post
        I wonder if Kupula was trying to get someone to attack the Tzimisce - maybe the demon was trying to distract the vampire, to weaken the vampire so the demon could get out of the deal it has with the vampire.
        Kupala is taking over Tremere's body in my game and is the White Worm.

        Which is what the PCs should slay!



        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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        • #5
          Another possibility to play with: Introduce a competitor to Clan Tzimisce's territorial blood sorcerers, in the hopes that one side or the other would strike more bargains with Kupala in search of an advantage over the other.

          Any number of these ideas could be true at the same time. I think it was pretty well established that breaking free of the bonds that the Garou had placed on it was Kupala's real long term goal throughout the Transylvania Chronicles campaign, but it probably pursued that goal through a lot of different angles in the hopes that one scheme would finally do the job.
          Last edited by Reasor; 09-27-2020, 06:41 PM.

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          • #6
            Didn't the Earthbound in DtF want bodies that could house the vast powers they could only contain in non-biological vessels? One might imagine that Kupala's goal was to create a body that would be able to contain at least some (if not all) of the power of an Earthbound without destroying itself in the short term. And to me the 'body' of an ancient vampire seems like one that might be 'conditioned' to wield potentially godlike power. Sort of like CtPhipps 'Evil Saulot' idea I guess.

            Even more horrific is the idea that Kupala didn't want just one body, but an entire process that would allow the Earthbound to regain fleshly forms. I can't remember - was there anything that ever linked Kupala and Vissictude? Seems like that thread and the narrative issues therein might tie in here also.

            Maybe Gehenna was really a bunch of earthbound possessing ancient vampire bodies (with or without the spirits) and bringing about the apocalypse.

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            • #7
              What Kupala wants? Nothing good to be sure. Keep in mind its simulacrum is the whole of the Carphatian muntain chain and he knows what transpires inside its borders. Also keep in mind it was Kupala who taught Tzimisce how to twist its gifts of blood into Vicissitude and it's probably Kuppala who took control of the cathedral of flesh to slay Yorak. Kupala is a deeply evil being, probably one of the most powerful Earthbound demons in existance and it wants to be free of its bonds.

              The idea it might want to possess the body of an Antediluvian which should be tough enough to contain its essence without crumbling to dust in a matter of minutes its a sound one, imo, but given Kupala's ties to the Tzimisce I'd make the Eldest its target rather than Saulot who's actually an expert at moving its soul around in different host bodies anyway.

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              • #8
                Kupala just wants a kickass rave to "Night on Bald Mountain"



                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • #9
                  I think what Kupala wants depends largely on who, or what, Kupala is.

                  My favorite interpretation of Kupala was from DA Players Guide to the High Clans, where is presented the idea that the Embrace of the Eldest at the hands of Enoch, while the later was trying to rid himself from his Beast, has something to do with Kupala.

                  I like the theory there that the Embrace of the Eldest somehow made the land vampiric, when Enoch's blood spilled on the Transylvanian soil. Or that Enoch did succeed, and that Kupala is his Beast, inhabiting the very land which absorbed it. One could also say the Eldest's Beast (or an amalgamation of theirs and Enoch's) is Kupala, too big and too powerful to be contained by the Eldest's flesh and taking residence on the land (perhaps through the Eldest's connection with its soil).

                  I have used this version of Kupala the most in my games. Recently, I've changed focus a bit to Demon: The Fallen, and have been wondering if Kupala as an Earthbound can be done without invalidating the Eldest Embrace theory. Perhaps Enoch's odd Embrace made the Carpathians suitable as a relicary to Fallen Kupala (which would corroborate the Lupine version of Kupala being an evil wyrm spirit).

                  A Fallen Earthbound Kupala can have many objectives. Actually, just being worshipped becomes a major objective, one quite successful for the demon so far. But I really like the idea of an Earthbound Kupala fostering a means of possessing a body powerful enough to house its might!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                    Kupala just wants a kickass rave to "Night on Bald Mountain"

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                    • #11
                      The White Wolf wiki reads that "All of its (Kupala's) chains to the mortal world were broken, save two: the Carpathian mountains, within which it had been bound for so long, and Tzimisce itself." Maybe it got involved in the Tremere to find a tool to break its ties with the Tzimisce Founder. If that connection is broken, would the Tzimisce as a clan still retain Vicissitude?

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                      • #12
                        more importantly, would the Vaulderie still work


                        -

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                        • #13
                          *Reads title*
                          Love?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by omenseer View Post
                            *Reads title*
                            Love?
                            pretty sure he already had plenty of that


                            -

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                            • #15
                              I admit, I jiggle with Kupala a bit in my campaigns to add a bit more of a personality to the Demon-King:

                              Traits of Kupala

                              * Kupala is female. There's a marked lack of estrogen among the Antediluvians and Kupala is the goddess of joy, fertility,and water in Slavic mythology.
                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deitie...lavic_religion

                              * Kupala is a Defiler from Demon: The Fallen. The Defilers are both water deities and sex deities. So, this works fine for them.

                              * Kupala is an Earthbound, which means they have Antedeluvian and godlike strength that would allow them to interfere with the vampire race's masters as an equal.

                              * Kupala's cult is a pagan one that is basically just a bunch of hippies and nice guys in many places, contrasting to the more overtly evil ones among demon worshipers. This is because Kupala doesn't give a crap about the pain, just the worship. She's a great deal "saner" than your typical Earthbound and more Luciferian than Ravener. She envisions making Earth a paradise for her followers and being its new God.

                              * Kupala taught Tzimisce (a woman in my setting but beyond such things now) shapeshifting and is the reason Vicissitude is no longer protean. This fits with shapeshfiting and water being tied.

                              * Tzimisce realized what Kupala was and is the one who imprisoned her under the Carpathians. Tzimisce realized that Kupala wished to inhabit her body and take over all of her descendants.

                              * The Tzimisce weakness is directly related to Kupala as their power of Vicissitude requires them to draw power from Kupala's soil. Koldunic sorcery is also something that was originally taught to them by her.

                              * Kupala is considered to be a Wyrm totem by the Shadow Lords and Black Spiral Dancers. Both of them have known to take her as patrons. Her blessings and gifts are related to water, shapeshifting, and attraction.

                              * The Salubri Warriors used to hunt her infected cultists, Formor, and those Tzimisce who worshiped her.

                              * Kupala shared her flower and Blood Bond-breaking ritual with the Tzimisce in order to screw with her captor. Every time the vaulderie is used, she gets a boost of power from the quintessence existing in the magic.

                              * The Old Clan Tzimisce know that Vicissitude is linked to Kupala and purified themselves with magic to get rid of her influence. The Eldest is someone they know is lost to its demonic power.

                              * The Old Clan Tzimisce's "Shadow Crusade" was just their war against Kupala and it was a stupidly misguided one, like throwing rocks at the ocean.

                              * Kupala is a demon that was summoned (or communicated with) by Tremere and the Council of Seven. It was her that gave Tremere the location of several Antediluvian tombs. Something nudged them to Saulot's tomb but it was NOT Kupala.

                              * Saulot is not the figure fighting for control of Tremere's body but Kupala. Kupala wished to take over Tremere's body so she could have an Antediluvian's body and live as a Demon Queen. Notably, this would go a long way to restoring her sanity but still leave her greatly evil as an Antediluvian is still mostly human.

                              * Dracula is Kupala's son via some magical shenanigans. He was meant to be the one to free her but proved...difficult to control. The Ainkurn swords are one of the few ways to do it.

                              * The Vukodlak was a Kupala cultist and believed through the summoning of her that he could destroy the Antediluvians. Cristof slaying him was at the behest of the Eldest who gave Cristof both one of the Ainkurn swords and a boost enough to slay the 6th generation methuselah.

                              * After Transylvania Chronicles IV, she was freed and took over Tremere's body to become the White Worm. Tremere proceeded to bury their body under the ground with a hellfire missile barrage.

                              * Dracula is presently hunting for a way to slay Kupala permanently and liberate the Tzimisce as well as Tremere from her influence.
                              Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-29-2020, 11:52 AM.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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