What if the Sabbat beat the Camarilla?

[AnubisXy]

They would probably then get smoked by humanity when they decided it's time to rule over the cattle.

I think this is basically my answer. The Sabbat is a lot more blatant and open about their condition than the Camarilla, and once the Camarilla is defeated, the Sabbat have one less reason to keep hidden and to a degree, keep working with one another. I would imagine they they end up getting into some nasty factional fights civil/war and the end result is, humanity finds out about the existence of vampires even faster, and the Second Inquisition ramps up even faster.

[KarlB]

Ironically, if the Sabbat were to survive after becoming the dominant force, they'd have to embrace secrecy and structure, exercise restraint, and come up with a set of core rules and principles that all vampires must follow to ensure their survival. Basically, they would become the new Camarilla, lol.

Note that the whole humanity thing is not a Camarilla principle. The Camarilla doesn't give two sh*ts about being humane and are perfectly fine with their members being total monsters ... as long as said monsters are subtle, secretive, and respect authority. If one of their own wishes to kidnap a couple of humans to gleefully torture and mentally fracture, all the power to them. As long it doesn't draw unwanted attention their way from other humans.

[MyWifeIsScary]

My Camarilla vampires will totally use your lack of humanity to persecute or socially condemn you.
They'll also despise you for having high humanity...


I think if the Sabbat did take over they'd just lay low and prepare for the war. Most of their masquerade breaks are weaponized utility, not something they'd casually do in their own back yard. If you're going to live in packs, you're eventually going to get fed up with any excessive bullshit that could bring the hunts down on ya.

[Val_Nir]

The best Sabbat Ascension scenario I've ever seen was described in Dark Ages V20 Apocrypha of the Clans, Salubri section. Every single line of it is amazing. Once, I will certainly do a chronicle based on this alternative.
I still think that Salubri always would make an amazing third leg for the Sabbat's chair at its foundation, countering the two Douche clans' predatory politics and overall being the 'adult in the room' for the sect, helping to (repeatedly) root out infernalism and sneaky stabbers like TMR and to convert the ideology of Sabbat regarding mortals from indiscriminate abuse towards efficient parasitism. If only they could pull their stuff together back then in dark ages and join Tzimisce in their war before the Revolt. A man can dream.

[Reasor]

A Sabbat with the Salubri among its founders would have been the enemy the Tremere really deserved.

Or, to put it another way, Salubri with allies. The fact that no one raised a finger to help a clan that would have basically been everyone's second best ally, or to stop a clearly ambitious and deadly school of bloodthirsty newcomers, always made more sense as a deliberately tragic emotional narrative on the real life publisher's part than as a tactical move on the Kindred's part.

[Shakanaka]

A Sabbat with the Salubri among its founders would have been the enemy the Tremere really deserved.

Or, to put it another way, Salubri with allies. The fact that no one raised a finger to help a clan that would have basically been everyone's second best ally, or to stop a clearly ambitious and deadly school of bloodthirsty newcomers, always made more sense as a deliberately tragic emotional narrative on the real life publisher's part than as a tactical move on the Kindred's part.

Why would anyone help a Clan that got upstaged so easily for? That doesn't make sense to me.

[MyWifeIsScary]

Nobody wanted to help the Salubri because it was in their best interest not to help the Salubri. Few clans cared for the Salubri, nobody trusted the Salubri, and many people owed the Salubri favours, but having one-way debt? If someone comes along with a promise of wiping away your debt, who can also grant impressive favours, and also they'll blacklist you if you get in the way, would you really be backing the Salubri?

The Salubri, even more than the later capadocians, were just destined to be wiped out, like any other Dark-Age Bloodline that also got wiped. It's their own fault; a stupid weakness, a bad discipline spread for neonates, a poor attitude for working with others... Why would anyone bet on these guys over the Tremere, who, pre-v5, had only one weakness: being so overwhelmingly successful that it was pissing everyone else off.

[Pleiades]

Why would anyone help a Clan that got upstaged so easily for? That doesn't make sense to me.

Salubri aren't Tremere, that's reason enough for me,
though "help" isn't in most vampires' lingo

[Ideon]

The Assamites were the closest thing to an ally the Salubri had, and the most they could do was help evacuate as many as they could east.

And all that accomplished was putting Haqim's Children on the Tremere's shitlist. And probably setting the stage for their part in the Anarch Revolt ("Hey you wanna come eat some elders oppressing us?" "Yeah after what kind of assholes they seemed to be last time we were around, we're down").

[Pleiades]

The Assamites were the closest thing to an ally the Salubri had, and the most they could do was help evacuate as many as they could east.

And all that accomplished was putting Haqim's Children on the Tremere's shitlist. And probably setting the stage for their part in the Anarch Revolt ("Hey you wanna come eat some elders oppressing us?" "Yeah after what kind of assholes they seemed to be last time we were around, we're down").

and now they are in the Camarilla with the Tremere, just like the Nosferatu and, maybe soon, the Tzimisce

so...yeah

[Ideon]

Oh god Tzimisce in the Camarilla would be hilarious. Even the Assamite hateboner for the Warlocks paled in comparison (as much as a third of the clan was willing to set that... uh, boner aside in the name of survival).

[Shakanaka]

Where is there any information of the Tzimisce joining (or hint) the Camarilla at all? The whole point of the deal-breaker of them considering joining was the fact that the Tremere were in it in the first place. Not only that their basic philosophies they abide by don't roll with the Camarilla. Can we please stop putting Clans that make no sense in the Camarilla into to it?

[MyWifeIsScary]

Well since the Tremere are all dead I guess the tzmusce can join without any other reservations.

[Pleiades]

Where is there any information of the Tzimisce joining (or hint) the Camarilla at all?

nowhere, except for the Tzimisce Prince in Tokyo,

I'm just getting ready for the worst,
it's been two years since the Lasombra and Assamite, you should be familiar with the V5 paradigm by now

Well since the Tremere are all dead I guess the tzmusce can join without any other reservations.

yeah, but emphasis on "join",
the Tzimisce I know and love wouldn't just "join", they would conquer the Camarilla, clean up the Tremere filth and plaster Toreador skin as wallpaper,
hopefully with the help of some Nosferatu who have been eager to bash in some Ventrue skulls since the Inquisition started

but...that's not how V5 would handle it

[Spencer from The Hills]

I don't see why one 12th generation Tzimisce in Tokyo in the 21st century should deeply care about a war in medieval Europe. If there's any Tzimisce figure V5 gritting their teeth about being in the same sect as House Tremere, it's the former prince of Tblisi, assuming her title infers membership of the Camarilla and even she could be part of a bloodline that had nothing to do with the Omen War.