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[Fanon Thread] How to update the Sabbat to 5E

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  • [Fanon Thread] How to update the Sabbat to 5E

    Pretty much what the title says.

    You have been given the job of finally doing a Sabbat book (or participating in it) for 5th Edition by Modiphius. Your job is to bring the Sabbat back into prominence as a major faction for the setting as established.

    Things that have been previously established have to remain canon. There was a Gehenna War, quite a lot of Lasombra defected to the Camarilla, the Harbingers have taken over the Clan formerly known as the Giovanni, and at least some of its major cities have fallen (Mexico City and Montreal). Everything else is up to you and you can interpret what you want from it as well. For instance, if you want, have the city of Montreal taken back. You have complete freedom to suggest the changes you want and what you think would be pretty awesome to do.

    It doesn't have to be fluff alone either. Your suggestion can be reimplement the Path system or adapt them as optional rules. Also, that Sabbat, due to the ritae are immune to the automatic Humanity loss of diablerie.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

  • #2
    Rules Update Suggestions

    1. Sabbat automatically get the option to have Vampire Convictions as one of their base abilities. Vampire Convictions work identically to Convictions in the Camarilla and Anarchs but can have Touchstones that are their fellow vampires. In fact, they are forbidden from having Human Touchstones.

    2. Sabbat have Path rather than Humanity on their character sheet.

    3. Vampire Touchstones are usually their Pack mates but can also be vampires who they revere as exemplars of the kind of undead they want to be.

    4. Sabbat do not lose a point of Path if they diablerize a Camarilla, Ashira, Inconnu, or Anarch. This is just part of the perks of the sect.

    5. Sabbat do not lose a point of Path if they kill a human or engage in mayhem. This is just part of the Chronicle tenets of any Sabbat game.

    6. Sabbat do get stains for betraying the Sect, betraying their fellow Pack members, blasphemy against the sect, showing mercy, showing weakness, or displaying cowardice. Basically, your religion should be like an undead Klingon.

    7. I am trying to think up a good adjustment for bestial frenzies.


    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

    Comment


    • #3
      For the record, I would prefer to see an Ashirra book come out first.

      First 100-130 pages or so fiction and setting. Topics to cover, 2nd Inquisition attacks on Sabbat strongholds, stories from packs that went to the war and packs that didn't, how life in the Sabbat is different after returning from the war and attempting to rebuild. Rites and rituals described in the fiction. Some light mechanics

      Next 50ish pages clans of the Sabbat, give more weight to Shimmies, remaining Lasombra and how the rest of the clan leaving has changed their place in the hierarchy, and Panders highlighting what truly makes them different than Caitiff in other Sects. Selective Antitribu section covering House Goatrix, City Gangrel, and how being demoted to third-tier (fourth tier?) has changed the sects viewpoints on their place in vampire society.

      A couple of pages on pack/sect conflict resolution.

      Loresheets, including taking Paths of Englightent as a Loresheet.

      Comment


      • #4
        I would have them trim down the Auctoritas Ritae to Creation Rites, Fire Dance, Monomacy, Vaulderie, War Party, Wild Hunt. They would elevate the Ignoblis Ritae One of My Tribe to an Auctoritas Ritae. Seven total. Participation in Ritae, as well as Vinculums, may take the place of Touchstones (I like the idea of a vampire doing something that might grant Stains and going, 'this is bad, but I walked through fire last week so I can manage'). I also like the idea of Packmates acting as Touchstones too.

        The core unit of the Sabbat would be the Pack. Embracing with the blood of the Pack would become a thing again. Thanks to their experience in the Gehenna War, returning Sabbat will not be so gung ho about Diablerie. The War Party Auctoritas would provide a means of mitigating Humanity loss due to Diablerie.

        There will be internal conflict with returning Sabbat and those that stayed. As veterans come home from war, they no longer fit in with their 'civilian' counterparts and indeed, see much of what they do night to night as pointless after what they've been through. Similar to the returning mortals who join motorcycle clubs, the only place these Sabbat feel at home is with their Pack.

        The Black Hand will be making inroads to trim the fat and turn the remaining Sabbat into its own vision of what it should be. Part of why the Sabbat began abandoning cities was not just to go fight the Gehenna War. The Black Hand started to refuse answering calls, leaving cities to stand or fall on their own. This also ties in with the Lasombra defection.

        I'd use Ethics and some of the Hierarchy of Sins as examples of Convictions for Path followers.

        Comment


        • #5
          The Paths of Enlightenment homebrew is an excellent start: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N7z...ymRB7vteu/view

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by zahana
            For the record, I would prefer to see an Ashirra book come out first.
            I surely agree, we need some sort of clarification on the Ashirra since the Beckoning is all centered in the Middle-East at the moment and apparently the MAJORITY of the Sabbat have gone over there (along with the majority of all the Elders from all the sects apparently too).


            Jade Kingdom Warrior

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

              I surely agree, we need some sort of clarification on the Ashirra since the Beckoning is all centered in the Middle-East at the moment and apparently the MAJORITY of the Sabbat have gone over there (along with the majority of all the Elders from all the sects apparently too).
              I have this weird image of the Ashirra and its vampires sitting in their perfectly normal cities, drinking tea, and watching television while 30 miles outside there's this apocalyptic Mad Max-esque war going on.

              "Well, that's weird." - Deborah, 13th generation Israeli Banu Haqim Vizier.

              Mind you, having an experience with evangelical missionaries and pilgrims, I know that at least some are going to disbelieve the Beckoning exists and claim it's just a Kindred version of Jerusalem syndrome.

              "Right, the Elders of the Camarilla are all summoned by an invisible force."

              "No, it's true! It's GEHENNA!"

              "Sure it is, pal."


              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                I have this weird image of the Ashirra and its vampires sitting in their perfectly normal cities, drinking tea, and watching television while 30 miles outside there's this apocalyptic Mad Max-esque war going on.

                "Well, that's weird." - Deborah, 13th generation Israeli Banu Haqim Vizier.

                Mind you, having an experience with evangelical missionaries and pilgrims, I know that at least some are going to disbelieve the Beckoning exists and claim it's just a Kindred version of Jerusalem syndrome.

                "Right, the Elders of the Camarilla are all summoned by an invisible force."

                "No, it's true! It's GEHENNA!"

                "Sure it is, pal."
                πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

                They all watch Outer Banks and chill while Rome burns...

                What’s Jerusalem Syndrome?


                The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

                Comment


                • #9
                  So...

                  The Camarilla elders had this idea that the masses of neonates were too much and they wanted to call an exterminatus on most of them. The Sabbat elders agreed. Also this new-world the Camarilla had in mind appealed to the Sabbat elders and so...
                  A bunch of elders get 'beckoned' and by that I mean they don't really agree with the idea and go into hiding because they don't want to be persecuted by either side
                  The Brujah left the Camarilla because they didn't like the idea. Which is ridiculous, because no-one brujah is going to decide something that big for all of them, but I've gotta work with what's written.
                  The Camarilla kicked out a bunch of it's members.
                  The Camarilla allowed open religion to appeal to the Sabbat elders and get them more on board with the whole thing
                  The Sabbat are sending their members on a crusade
                  The Camarilla organized some hunters to begin a cull.
                  The Sabbat are killing their members in the shipping crates.
                  The Tremere split to get into every city: Carna for the new camarilla cities who hate them, Ipps for the Anarch domains, Gor to keep an eye on the Sabbat.

                  The Sabbat members who survived shipping will go on a grand crusade of vengance, some of the loyal moles they left behind will be very useful.

                  Of course, this sounds all too clever. Maybe I'd just have the Sabbat come back as antediluvian puppets and have them abduct everyone as sacrifices to their antediluvian overlords before they too get chomped.
                  Or maybe, because i've got a sense of humour, I'll have the Sabbat win. They kill all the Antes and ponder upon what to do. Then people eat the guys who ate the old third gens, then people eat those guys, then people eat those guys, and so on. Then the Sabbat is about a dozen people.


                  Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Penelope View Post

                    πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

                    They all watch Outer Banks and chill while Rome burns...
                    I admit to a certain level of humor at the fact that the Gehenna War seems to depend on the Middle East being a mysterious and far off land as opposed to a place I can check on my Google satellite feed and chat with people from every day.

                    What’s Jerusalem Syndrome?
                    Jerusalem Syndrome is a thing that's pretty well known among missionaries and tourists to Israel. Basically, and I'm obviously simplifying it, they go batshit from exposure to the Holy Land and decide that they're playing out some role in Biblical prophecy. John Q. Public decides he's Jesus, Moses Reborn, or having a personal mission from God to give up all his possessions and preach on the streets.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_syndrome

                    In the vampire context, it would be that the Ashirra think 1999 and 2004 really screwed with a bunch of Elder's heads and they're all heading to fight in Gehenna based on their own devotion to prophecy.

                    Which is a hilarious and not ENTIRELY inconceivable idea actually:

                    "The Thin Bloods have appeared. The millennium has changed. The stars are right and the planet is dying. Gehenna is upon us!"

                    "Uh, Menele, are you feeling alright?"

                    "No! I must go to Carthage and raise my sire! It is time to fight the war!"

                    "I think you should reconsider--"

                    "*Presence 9* All the childer and childer's childer I am a few generations close to along with all of my old allies, JOIN ME IN CARTHAGE TO FIGHT THE WAR!"


                    *over in London*

                    Restored Mithras: Menele has gone to the Middle East with an army of Methuselahs and Elders! IT MUST BE GEHENNA! SUMMON MY ARMIES *Dominate 9* Join me in Syria!
                    Last edited by CTPhipps; 10-17-2020, 03:45 AM.


                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                      I have this weird image of the Ashirra and its vampires sitting in their perfectly normal cities, drinking tea, and watching television while 30 miles outside there's this apocalyptic Mad Max-esque war going on.

                      "Well, that's weird." - Deborah, 13th generation Israeli Banu Haqim Vizier.

                      Mind you, having an experience with evangelical missionaries and pilgrims, I know that at least some are going to disbelieve the Beckoning exists and claim it's just a Kindred version of Jerusalem syndrome.

                      "Right, the Elders of the Camarilla are all summoned by an invisible force."

                      "No, it's true! It's GEHENNA!"

                      "Sure it is, pal."

                      looooooooool


                      Jade Kingdom Warrior

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                        Pretty much what the title says.

                        You have been given the job of finally doing a Sabbat book (or participating in it) for 5th Edition by Modiphius. Your job is to bring the Sabbat back into prominence as a major faction for the setting as established.

                        Things that have been previously established have to remain canon. There was a Gehenna War, quite a lot of Lasombra defected to the Camarilla, the Harbingers have taken over the Clan formerly known as the Giovanni, and at least some of its major cities have fallen (Mexico City and Montreal).
                        lore-wise, I guess considering the speed at which all the events happened, the remaining sabbat would be a mix of confused and unnerved,
                        I wouldn't bring them back to prominence, just have them stuck in this loop of tryig to figure out what happened and trying to figure out what to do,

                        they'd be mostly improvising, hanging out on anarch territory or squatting among the camarilla,
                        the SI activity has cut or slowed down their communications with the rest of the sect,
                        having lost Mexico and Montreal, they have lost most of their war ressources and blood magic assistance,

                        but on the bright side, the semi-collapse of the Tremere has affoarded them some room to maneuver

                        in America, Serpents of the Light would probably have some connections or downright join the Ministry,
                        the Black Angels communities in America would be strugling due to lasombra defectors hunting them down, and the rise of some strange lasombra cults in the camarilla,
                        the seven fires efforts are mostly unsuccessful, as they only manage to eleminate and catch entry level vampires and other weaklings holding weak intel with limited reach,

                        in Europe and North Africa, the Black Hand and some sabbat elders, having their hands full with the crusades, decide to hire some sabbat to re-establish connection with the rest of the sect,
                        most of these sabbat either have no stake in the war or lost everything in the recent events and would be willing to do mercenary work for the right price,
                        they're a bit disorganized at first and struggling with the new environment but eventually make it to America,
                        they make contact with the Black Angels, the sabbat in anarch territory and learn about sabbat militants called the Seven,

                        upon first contact, the Seven are mistrusting of the mercenaries, especially when they find out no support is coming from the east,
                        but after some joint operations and sharing some good old ritae, the Seven finally accept to give what little intel they gathered and safe routes they established to allow the mercs to look for other cells in Canada and Latin America

                        if successful, the black hand and eastern sabbat try to coordinate the sabbat in the west, and send some (meager) support to America

                        mechanics-wise...I don't know, I've been trying to think up some new rules, but I'm bad at making those,

                        mostly, I'm interrested in making some path mechanics separate from the humanity system to give the sabbat some flavour,
                        my first attempt would be to think up how the gnostic sabbat (Cathari) would differ from the Church of Caine and the Ministry,
                        I was thinking some mechanics that would emphasize the Cathari being "material beings" locking and leeching from the spritiual
                        Last edited by Pleiades; 10-17-2020, 07:58 AM.


                        -

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                        • #13
                          CTPhipps yeah, that is kinda funny lol. But for real, I always figured the Gehenna War was fought in the shadows, out of sight of not just the mortals but the Ashirra who actually lived there.


                          The die is cast. - Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by zahana View Post
                            For the record, I would prefer to see an Ashirra book come out first.
                            I agree. And an Ashirra would also provide info on the Sabbat, as a lot of Sabbat are (or were) running around in the local deserts like a bunch of jackasses.

                            It is also interesting to think that the Beckoning mostly hits non-Ashirra vampires.

                            As for the Sabbat;
                            • The β€œold” Sabbat is gone.
                            • There are a half dozen or so Sabbat survivor cells, each believing it to be carrying on the best and trustiest traditions and goals of the old Sabbat.
                            • Lucita is leading one such cell, probably the least objectionable (or at least most approachable and negotiable).
                            • The other cells range from worse to much worse, with some seeming to be little more than violent and cruel Anarchs to some cells actively trying to bring about the end of the world.
                            • One cell is composed entirely, or mostly, of Tzimisce and their servants.
                            • Vykos is missing but supposedly the head of a cult – but this might be a deception on part of others.
                            • CTPhipps mechanical suggestions are good.
                            • But in the general flexible (for the ST to use) and mystery, the Sabbat fulfills the same narrative role it had back in 1st edition and in part of 2nd edition; some generally unknowable enemy force, lurking in the darkness at the edges of the known… waiting to destroy the unwary.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Some Loresheet Ideas:

                              * Black Hand: Membership in this group would obviously be a important potential Loresheet.

                              * Diablerie: Give the Sabbat a special relationship with diablerie that they can derive more benefit from it and perhaps even increase their Path rating through the ritualistic practice of the art.

                              * Famous Sabbat: Polonia, Lucita, Vykos, and so on are all choices obviously.

                              * Games of Instinct: You're famous and well-practiced at all these insane stunts that Sabbat do for prestige as well as to prove their courage.

                              * Gehenna Warrior: You have been to the Middle East and SEEN things. You have emerged with a lot of experience in fighting Elders, Ancients, and carrying out military tactics against vampires.

                              * House Goratrix (Tremere Only): You are a member of House Goratrix and secretly working for Tremere.

                              * Pack Priest: You have the ability to "heal" stains on your coterie's Path and do other rituals to keep them from wightdom or perhaps direct frenzy to useful ends.

                              * Sabbat Inquisition: Pretty much the same as membership in the Black Hand. You are part of the Sabbat Inquisition and hunt infernalists.

                              * Secret Infernalist: Because it's not the 80s anymore, you can play a character who is enslaved to or enslaves a demon. You have some infernal investments and can summon demons to benefit yourself, Blood Sorcery or no.

                              * Vinculum which would have benefits like the ability to do the ritual, powerful bonds, the ability to establish said bonds but ignore them yourselves, and so on.


                              Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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