The Cults of the Blood Gods discussion thread

[Saturno]

Just a small question (short enough that I don't want to open a separate thread):
Now that the Harbingers don't necessarily suffer from skelettal appearance: When do they wear their masks? I understand they wear them at Harbinger gatherings and at Hecata family meetings. Do they wear them in Elysium? Do they wear them at informal 'friendship visits' at the local Gangrel anarch's place? Do they wear them 'on the streets'?

Thanks for your help in advance. This is a thing that doesn't really leave my mind.

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

I think they wear them as often as possible.

[AkatsukiLeader13]

It's unclear how much they wear masks but it does seem like they do favor wearing them as much as possible, at least in public settings and always in their ceremonies.

[The Gentleman Gamer]

Whenever it benefits them to demonstrate status without drawing the risk of destruction.

[Saturno]

Whenever it benefits them to demonstrate status without drawing the risk of destruction.

OK, that's specific enough to work with and vague enough to have fun. Thank you.

One more thing: The flavour text for the 5-point Lore Sheet of the Harbingers states that the wearer of the Lazarene Mask knows that the Harbingers wish for all who serve the Clan of Death to die and become masters of death. If I compare this with the text in Lore of the Bloodlines, I wonder if this is a partial retcon.

Does the Lore Sheet ability refer to the Harbinger's hatred of Cappadocius' servants/disciples and therefor they hate the Clan of Death as a whole, because its members are descendants of Cappadocius? That would seem to be in line with Lore of the Bloodlines, but to be honest it is nowhere in CotBG hinted that they hate the Hecata, only that they incur no stains for killing them. At the same time it is implied that they wish them to die, because a necromancer's last step has to be his own death in order to to master death (like some kind of dark interpretation of a greek mystery cult). If the latter is true: Do they strive for death themselves? Do they feel that in killing other Hecata they're doing them a favour? Is this a shift in relation to V20 lore? Is this a retcon? (How does this fit Roger de Camden's speech about the strength of the Hecata clan as a whole and his seeming moderation when it comes to killing Giovanni. And where is the room for Harbinger characters who want revenge and like to kill Giovanni?)

Sorry for asking. This is probably the biggest question mark for me in the whole book. It's very interesting and rich, but also a bit menacing in its vagueness. I would be really happy if could could enlighten me on this topic, especially because one of my players wants to play a Harbinger.

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

Whatever is going on with the Hecata, specifically the Harbingers of (Something Unpleasant), is compelling in its mystery. According to Lore of the Bloodlines at least some of the HoS are either possessed by wraiths or are revenants and much of what the HoS are doing is a revenge plot by wraiths and the Lady of Fate. She is, according to Wraith lore, no less than Eve the mother of Caine. Vampires have, through murder and the like, created a great many wraiths who want revenge.

Some of that may still be in play - that at least some of the HoS are either possessed by wraiths or are revenants and bent on revenge. Or maybe everything the Hecata are doing is part of a plan by the Lady of Fate.

Even if that is not the case, then my understanding is the alliances and deals making the Hecata possible are about as stable and appealing as a stack of old, sweating dynamite.

[Baaldam]

Truth be told, i don't even how much of that stuff i would use or not in my games, considering that the Harbingers of Skulls i use in my games are essentially a Drowned Legacy with little to no relation the Caps. That said their hate-on was pretty much focused in the Pisanob with other Giovanni branches as mere colateral.

Or that the Capuchin is not Lazarus, but Constancia. Oh boy, there's that too.

Question, does the book tells us anything on the Drowned Legacies?

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

I don't think Drowned Legacies have been explored or detailed anywhere except the Jyhad Diary and a tiny bit in Chicago by Night 5th.

[Baaldam]

I don't think Drowned Legacies have been explored or detailed anywhere except the Jyhad Diary and a tiny bit in Chicago by Night 5th.

Oh well, damn shame but that's good to know either way.
Incidentally, speaking of BJD...

• Bogs have deep memories. A melting glacier shard forms a lake.
Something prehistoric waits in the water — something that traveled thousands of miles in an ice sarcophagus — something that brewed the oxygen from the water with decay, choking the fish — something that urged ancient men to throw sacrifices into its mouth, then preserved those bodies with liquid necromancy, tanning flesh in water the color of strong tea.
The first bog body tore through the placental layer of sphagnum moss and trembling earth. Only death can nourish it. It preserves some of the dead it swallows, pickling the corpses with the black bog water in its veins.

There is something i re-read recently that made me remember that chapter of the book.

[Spencer from The Hills]

Question, does the book tells us anything on the Drowned Legacies?

One of ten of the briefly described "Minor Cults" is Los Hijos de Si, which operates in Peru and Bolivia. They serve beings called Machukuna, who are described as "vampires of sorts, but possibly not descended from the Dark Father". It's a couple of pages, not including pictures and formatting. It's more about the cult than the Machukuna themselves, but you might be interested in this:

"What the Machukuna do with cigarettes, liquor, and food is unknown, but these offerings are stacked neatly before their desiccated skeletons deep underground and vanish before the Hijos return.

[Baaldam]

One of ten of the briefly described "Minor Cults" is Los Hijos de Si, which operates in Peru and Bolivia. They serve beings called Machukuna, who are described as "vampires of sorts, but possibly not descended from the Dark Father". It's a couple of pages, not including pictures and formatting. It's more about the cult than the Machukuna themselves, but you might be interested in this:

"What the Machukuna do with cigarettes, liquor, and food is unknown, but these offerings are stacked neatly before their desiccated skeletons deep underground and vanish before the Hijos return.

Hmmmm, who might say.....
But definitely more promising than Rule 63 Yaryan, sorry, Nerissa Blackwater, imho.

[CTPhipps]

Hmmmm, who might say.....
But definitely more promising than Rule 63 Yaryan, sorry, Nerissa Blackwater, imho.

Nerissa Blackwater can be a lot of things, though most of them put her (to me at least) as "Lilith worshiping ancient who is probably going to kill Helena before the latter even realizes she's a threat."

Another alternate identity I was experimenting with was she was the Gangrel Antediluvian.

[Baaldam]

Nerissa Blackwater can be a lot of things, though most of them put her (to me at least) as "Lilith worshiping ancient who is probably going to kill Helena before the latter even realizes she's a threat."

Another alternate identity I was experimenting with was she was the Gangrel Antediluvian.

Oh, i have no doubt about this, she does have potential to go in a number of directions. It's just the degree to which she's defined by informed traits, and relationship with Helena - though those are issues far from unique to her (unfortunately quite the opposite, in fact) - not to mention a backstory given in somewhat vague terms that bleeds into the "magical native american" Chakotay-type, kind of like 2nd edition version of Yaryan (first ed being more focused in the methuselah's keeper that discovers one past sin of its ancestor - and the Blood Bond) might be said. To the point of the writer hanging a lampshade on it to try to downplay the issue.

With some detail and specifity she could be indeed a great, well-rounded character. But unfortunately as given i must say i found Nerissa Blackwater somewhat lacking, just another generic ancient propping itself as big by references to more established stuff while dong nothing in particular. That said, i haven't gone deep into Chicago yet, so there's hope of coming across something that will change my feelings about her in either some other part of the book, or the Chicago Folio in the future. Time will tell.

[Saturno]

Thanks for all the feedback. The player has much fun playing a Harbinger now. But after the last session some questions appeared to me concerning necromantic uses of Oblivion.

1. Do I always need a fetter to summon a wraith? I thought this was more of a bonus but not a necessary prerequisite. But the ceremonies in CotBG make it seem like it's necessary.
2. How would you describe a 'usual wraith summoning' from a game perspective?

What I did as a ST/what I improvised was the following:

The player wanted to summon a Ghost in the Machine in order to possess a car to run over a Tremere and initiate an ambush.

What she did was:
1. She noticed that Ghosts in the Machine are often very shy and figured that maybe she should be searching places where people died reclusive.
2. She used Investigation of local history/dead perople, Aura Perception and The Binding Fetter in order to find a wheel chair of someone, who was crippled in a car accident and loathed his existence and all other people neglecting him and died reclusive.
3. She used Where the Shroud Thins to find a good place for the ceremony.
4. She used Summon Spirit (which only works with a fetter?).
5. Because of her experience in the Shadowlands and what happened to Augustus Giovanni and because she had a Samedi mawla she didn't want to force the wraith into subjugation via Compel Spirit unless necessary. So she talked with him and persuaded him to do her bidding. This was possible because the service she asked him to do, was something he liked (Running people over with a possessed car, was something that related to his own history and his spite.) and because she promised to hold a commemoration telling his story to those, who forgot him.
6. Profit. (The wraith did as he was asked.)

What do you think about this? This worked narratively and enriched the session, but I'm interested if this was done as it was intended by the system. CotBG should go a bit more into detail than the manuscript tbh. And although I'm a Vampire player since the first edition I never played a necromancer. So I can't compare systems or even judge if this was fitting narratively.

Thanks in advance. (And all criticism/problems aside, CotBG is so awesome. It's so full of great ideas and really usable as a ST.)

[Saturno]

Is there really noone, who knows what the intended way of summoning a ghost is and everyone just improvises?
I'd really like some hints.