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[V20 Dark Ages] Embracing a Firstborn Fae

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  • [V20 Dark Ages] Embracing a Firstborn Fae

    I have been reading through Dark Ages: Fae (just got it on sale on DriveThruRPG) and I have been wondering whether a Firstborn Fae could be embraced by a vampire. It states that their blood is edible to vampires but not whether they can be embraced. V20 Dark Ages doesn't state it either. I know in addition to the crossover issues there there are some huge edition difference issues here since Dark Ages Fae never got an update to 20th Anniversary Edition.

    The V20 Dark Ages Kiasyd entry says they are formed from the embrace of "fae-touched humans", does this include changelings or even firstborn fae? It also says that the embrace burns away powers and fae related memories but Dark Ages Fae states that mortal relatives of Fae don't have any powers, could it be that the kindred are mistaking actual fae for fae-touched mortals?

    If it is possible, and if a fae wanted to become a vampire, perhaps due to having acquired an unfortunately large number of Echoes or something, and had a cooperating potential sire (say a Tremere or something else with access to a blood sorcery to help), what ways could they use to get around the memory loss mentioned in the Kiasyd entry?

    Eidetic Memory combined with high Expression and Crafts (Painting) could allow them to write down and illustrate their life story in excruciating detail before the embrace for them to read afterward as a crude workaround.

    Perhaps something more interesting could be possible. For example maybe the sire could invent the Thaumaturgy ritual Amulet of Mnemosyne (Rites of Blood pg 25) a few centuries early and store the fae's memories in the amulet to be retrieved after embrace. Maybe fae magic could do something similar?

  • #2
    Probably it would create some horrible crossover creature that breaks alot of things. But personally I would just go with the line that you can't have multiple templates at the same time. So in my opinion the Embrace would fail as the Fae would simply die when its body shuts down due to the loss of blood.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Gurkhal View Post
      Probably it would create some horrible crossover creature that breaks alot of things. But personally I would just go with the line that you can't have multiple templates at the same time. So in my opinion the Embrace would fail as the Fae would simply die when its body shuts down due to the loss of blood.
      If it worked, wouldn't it just result in an ordinary Kiasyd, maybe with some interesting merits/flaws?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Custos Tenebrarum View Post
        If it worked, wouldn't it just result in an ordinary Kiasyd, maybe with some interesting merits/flaws?
        Its entirely possible as I'm not very well versed about the Kiasyd.

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        • #5
          Most likely result: Dead Elf.

          Less likely result: Some sort of abomination that eats the souls of fae.


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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          • #6
            The question is why would any Dark Age Kindred want to embrace a first-born Fae for? The only reason the Kiasyd came about was because they looked human at first and that tricked some Kindred who wanted to sire them before it was too late. The Kiasyd in-character wise was a freak mistake. I don't see any Kindred however who would go out of there way to embrace a decidedly non-human seeming creature of somesort, maybe Malkavian.. but that would be it. I also sincerely doubt the embrace would work on first-born fae, because again, they're the real deal. Such things worked for spawning the Kiasyd because they were Changelings at this point, not the first-born.

            Not only that Dark Age Fae is a completely different universe from mainline Changeling so we don't even know if Kiasyd are possible from the Dark Age Fae perspective.


            Jade Kingdom Warrior

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
              The question is why would any Dark Age Kindred want to embrace a first-born Fae for?
              Perhaps a fae said "I want you to turn me into a vampire." to a mystically minded vampire (tremere or tzimisce or something), and the vampire thought "I wonder what will happen if I do it" and also possibly "Yes! Free faerie secrets!"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
                The question is why would any Dark Age Kindred want to embrace a first-born Fae for? The only reason the Kiasyd came about was because they looked human at first and that tricked some Kindred who wanted to sire them before it was too late. The Kiasyd in-character wise was a freak mistake. I don't see any Kindred however who would go out of there way to embrace a decidedly non-human seeming creature of somesort, maybe Malkavian.. but that would be it. I also sincerely doubt the embrace would work on first-born fae, because again, they're the real deal. Such things worked for spawning the Kiasyd because they were Changelings at this point, not the first-born.

                Not only that Dark Age Fae is a completely different universe from mainline Changeling so we don't even know if Kiasyd are possible from the Dark Age Fae perspective.
                I actually want to come back and retract this statement after checking Lore of the Bloodlines tonight, I was totally wrong. The Kiasyd came about by a deliberate experimentation by a Lasombra alchemist-noble named Marconius. He turned himself into a Kiasyd by sacrificing-diablerizing his sister (who he Embraced illegally after he was Embraced sometime ago) while in the Abyss realm. So they are a Bloodline of the Lasombra basically.. This also proves that the Abyss has nothing to do with Oblivion, since its impossible to have any type of inhabitation inside it- any attempt would be fully annihilation; while the Abyss is a Middle-Umbric realm that can be traveled inside too.

                EDIT: Also the Kisayd chapter of LotB basically says any attempted embrace of a Changeling or Fae always results in death.


                Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

                  I actually want to come back and retract this statement after checking Lore of the Bloodlines tonight, I was totally wrong. The Kiasyd came about by a deliberate experimentation by a Lasombra alchemist-noble named Marconius. He turned himself into a Kiasyd by sacrificing-diablerizing his sister (who he Embraced illegally after he was Embraced sometime ago) while in the Abyss realm. So they are a Bloodline of the Lasombra basically.. This also proves that the Abyss has nothing to do with Oblivion, since its impossible to have any type of inhabitation inside it- any attempt would be fully annihilation; while the Abyss is a Middle-Umbric realm that can be traveled inside too.

                  EDIT: Also the Kisayd chapter of LotB basically says any attempted embrace of a Changeling or Fae always results in death.
                  Modern Kiasyd are different than medieval Kiasyd that are called Maeghar in modern nights. The medieval version is fey that were embraced and the modern type is what's in Lore of the Bloodlines. Marconius' line hunted the Maeghar and they decided Marconius' line can keep the name for all they care. They pop up in the V20 Black Hand book. That's not to say a medieval Kiasyd might be a descendant of Marconius, but a lot were fey that were embraced and the V20 Dark Ages book reflects a fey embrace from another clan. Technically they're different bloodlines, but do share Mytherceria from a common fey origin.

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                  • #10
                    Yep, I red the Black Hand portion for the Maeghar and this is correct. A correction though is that the "Macronius" Kiasyd were from the Dark Age era and aren't Modern. They are in the same timeline range of progeneration as the Tremere and Giovanni.

                    EDIT: Also the Maeghar don't consider themselves to be a bloodline or clan whatsoever. They might be the most "individualistic clan" there is in VTM.


                    Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                    • #11
                      I use both the Kiasyd and the Maeghar as separate bloodlines. That being said, I’m not sure what would happen if you tried to Embrace a Firstborn fae. My guess is they would either become a Maeghar or dissolve back into the Mists.

                      Eldagusto you know a lot about the fae. What do you think?


                      “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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                      • #12
                        Maeghar most definitely. I remember certain conditions they could become human. Like one of the fictions had an enemies child taken to be made a Changeling and the humans baptized the baby and it became a normal mortal.


                        It is a time for great deeds!

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                        • #13
                          In C20 (and older editions) it was written that Firstborn Fae were able to "create" a body for themselves with the help of the Mist and their powers (or "borrowed" body of another person). However, due to their power, they have become very sensitive to influence of various beliefs and fantasies. In DA: F it is written that "True Fairies" were burned and melted when they entered human lands. They also don't have a soul.

                          As a result, faerie blood can have an effect on Cainites, but they (faerie) cannot become vampires due to their lack of soul, body and their sensitivity to stasis.
                          TrueFae-soul will not sleep - it dies (most likely forever) or go back to Dream.
                          Last edited by Alphari; 11-08-2020, 09:21 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Whoops, ignore this post.
                            Last edited by Shakanaka; 11-08-2020, 09:40 AM. Reason: I misread this whole post


                            Jade Kingdom Warrior

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
                              Really?
                              This is what the book says.

                              Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
                              plot of Changeling: The Dreaming wouldn't be possible
                              In C20 & DA:F - It is written that they do not have a human soul. The books say the changelings merged with the bodies. In DAF - there are 2 ways to get such a creature. Steal a baby and let him live with fairies, or send a fairy / fairy child to a human family (obviously in a baby's body).
                              They merge with this soul or receive it while the child is growing. Also, there are "fairies" who live in trees or are spirits (or half-spirits), they also do not have a soul.

                              Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
                              Also where did you get D:TF specifically addressing Changelings?
                              In C20 (and older editions)...
                              When did fairies become associated with demons? They can have behavior and appearance of demons... but they are not demons.
                              I don't know why you didn't like DTF. Lore of Triad and One do not conflict. Some are in prison, while others are destroying the world.

                              Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post
                              Whoops, ignore this post.
                              Ok
                              Last edited by Alphari; 11-08-2020, 09:59 AM.

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