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  • Gaian Elder or bloodline idea, second inquisition tie-in

    An elder wakes up from torpor and sees the state of the world. There are almost eight billion people and the earth's biosphere is facing collapse. A large number of kine are in professions that produce no goods, draw sizable salaries and spend money on consumer goods. He is also made aware of the threat of the Second Inquisition. So, he comes up with a simple solution.

    He starts embracing mortals who he deems to be the most destructive to nature and then advises his progeny to prepare defenses against the second inquisition. Through his existing contacts with whatever vampire sect he belongs to, he organizes a disinformation campaign that characterizes vampire society as being dedicated to consuming the planet's resources. He makes up legends that ancients (like himself) have the ability to grow in strength from the destruction of nature. This disinformation is targeted at the second inquisition.

    The progeny he has created are forced to define themselves in opposition to the roles they played in their mortal lives, while evading the second inquisition. When the second inquisition does catch one of them, they are further convinced that the planet-leeching legends are true. They unwittingly take up the elder's cause, their attention redirected at those humans who are agents, witting or not, of planetary destruction. When the inquisitors run out visible or known vampire targets, they begin looking at the human population through an environmental lens. They are forced to confront problems with humanity itself.

    The members of the bloodline, if it can be defined that way, have a distinct characteristic. They are not only trying to hold onto their humanity, but also atoning for the sins they committed as greedy consumers in life. They are vampires, something unnatural, trying to reconcile the relationship between humans, vampires and nature itself. Their role as an apex-predator above humans can be regarded as essential to the defense of nature.

    A new Discipline for this fledgling bloodline?
    Last edited by HorizonParty2021; 10-29-2020, 07:32 PM. Reason: spacing

  • #2
    So modern day Lhiannan?


    You've been playing around the magic that is black
    But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Dwight View Post
      So modern day Lhiannan?
      Sort of. There is a clear difference in what kind of humans are selected as progeny. The Lhiannan selected progeny on the basis their positive connection to nature. The elder in this case is selecting humans who are closely tied to consumerism and corporate culture. He is happy for them to be targets of the second inquisition. It is a kind of redemptive test that transforms them and enables them to learn: a new discipline / some version of Ogham. The blood sacrifice aspect of Ogham fits with the worldview of the elder.

      They could be an offshoot of Ventrue, since the clan prides itself on building institutions. It draws from the same mortal stock, business majors, marketing gurus, etc. As vampires, rather than determining how to sell plasticky junk to the masses, they use their skills to sell pro-vampire propaganda to knowledge-hungry inquisitors.

      The personal horror aspect is the function they perform in focusing the attention of the Second Inquisition on humanity's deep faults. The inquisitors think they are saving humanity from vampires and the bloodline makes the argument that humanity is its own worst enemy. There would be a small percentage people who would be so receptive to the message that they willingly feed themselves to this new apex predator. The discipline could be like Presence, working on multiple targets. It inspires collective self-loathing in the target population.

      Corporate sharks in life, these vampires convince their prey that they deserve to be consumed. They might drain their victims in a way that cleanses them of spiritual affiliation with the Wyrm. The bloodline is aware of Pentex and is adapted to combatting the conglomerate, uncovering its plans and selling it to the Inquisition as the greater threat.

      Second Inquisition versus Pentex. Vampires' problems with humans hunting them solved - if the bloodline succeeds in its goals.

      Comment


      • #4
        This is getting a little too gonzo cross over imo.


        You've been playing around the magic that is black
        But all the powerful magical mysteries never gave a single thing back

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Dwight View Post
          This is getting a little too gonzo cross over imo.
          In my post on vampire crossover in a Mage campaign, I specified that the ideas were for people who include vamp-crossover and that I don't include it myself. I was criticized for not including vampires in my chronicle, as people thought they should always, automatically be included.

          I added Pentex as I went. It's an open post. Anyone can mix, match, add or remove ideas.

          I think the theme of making inquisitors look at humanity more critically is a good concept, even if my process looks gonzo. That's what posts are for, "How about this idea?".

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
            An elder wakes up from torpor and sees the state of the world. There are almost eight billion people and the earth's biosphere is facing collapse. A large number of kine are in professions that produce no goods, draw sizable salaries and spend money on consumer goods. He is also made aware of the threat of the Second Inquisition.
            When and how? Ok, we are talking of an elder - how old is he or she, 1-3 centuries, 6, 9? How long did it stay in Torpor and when did it awaken from it? Is its enviromental awareness something in exactly those contemporary terms of overpopulation & enviromental collapse you described (implying it has been updating itself getting something like a more modern high school or college education?) or a more visceral/grassroots and consequently more personal & localized "where are the woods of my past nights? and where did all those endless weird-smelling city people come from?!" kind of worldview? And why would the Second Inquisition get the attention of someone that probably prefer more rural, secluded and less populous places, read, probably do not attract that much hunters in the first place? Details, details, let's give this old lad or lady some shape and face....

            Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
            So, he comes up with a simple solution. He starts embracing mortals who he deems to be the most destructive to nature and then advises his progeny to prepare defenses against the second inquisition.
            No offense, but embracing mortals who it deems to be the most destructive to nature, ergo, wishes destroyed, is the opposite of simple, that has endless potential for backfiring in a mind-boggling number of ways. Remember, we are talking businesspeople that are already quite predatory and ruthless, before you give them a Hunger, Beast and the nifty blood-fueled superpowers & weaknesses to learn about and struggle with.

            Not to mention headaches with other kindred who might take issues with someone starting some sort of brood-making spree. The Camarilla definitely has issues with that and the Sabbat might have too if the reason for their making is not being thrown like rabid death-lemmings at the kindred status quo of a non-Sabbat dominated city.

            Thou shall not give superpowers to people you wish dead, you just kill them, repeat with me, please.

            Or mind control them or someone close to them into killing them or making them commit suicide. Or even better, talk to them, use Auspex, Dominate or Presence to milk them for information on their operations, personal possessions, contacts, business rivals, likes/dislikes & etc. And then exploit the hell out of them all.

            - Make someone's shallow husband or wife have a fling with its rival for promotion and see that person ruin both careers (and a bunch of assets of the business) in the proccess.
            - Cause a crisis of conscience in a corporate shark with issues its own, leading him or her to donate all its possessions, shares in a number of polution-producing businesses, to enviromental causes.

            - Make a ghoul out of a son or daughter that already detests its callous parent and let this brand newempowered eco-warrior be the elder's guide in the minefield of contemporary society, business worlds, cars, computers & internet.

            That is how vampires do manipulative stuff.

            Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
            Through his existing contacts with whatever vampire sect he belongs to, he organizes a disinformation campaign that characterizes vampire society as being dedicated to consuming the planet's resources. He makes up legends that ancients (like himself) have the ability to grow in strength from the destruction of nature. This disinformation is targeted at the second inquisition.

            The progeny he has created are forced to define themselves in opposition to the roles they played in their mortal lives, while evading the second inquisition. When the second inquisition does catch one of them, they are further convinced that the planet-leeching legends are true. They unwittingly take up the elder's cause, their attention redirected at those humans who are agents, witting or not, of planetary destruction. When the inquisitors run out visible or known vampire targets, they begin looking at the human population through an environmental lens. They are forced to confront problems with humanity itself.
            Well, would it have contacts in a vampire sect in the first place? By your words this elder is more of an enviromentalist/eco-terrorist, what is not exactly a major (or even minor) ideological focus to any of the major sects in any edition. Not to mention the whole "spent some decades or centuries" in torpor that can put quite the crimp on one's social networking.

            But as i said previously - that whole idea as it currently stands seems to be overly convoluted and based on conclusion-jumping in a number of spots. Right now the narrative seems to be more about making a kind of gonzo chain of events eventually leading to the Second Inquisition being turned into mortal version of the Garou Nation than about an elder or methuselah looking at the modern world as "tainted" and deciding to deal with all the awful nature-despoiling business infrastructure.

            Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
            The members of the bloodline, if it can be defined that way, have a distinct characteristic. They are not only trying to hold onto their humanity, but also atoning for the sins they committed as greedy consumers in life. They are vampires, something unnatural, trying to reconcile the relationship between humans, vampires and nature itself. Their role as an apex-predator above humans can be regarded as essential to the defense of nature.
            Uh, just to belabor how utterly bound to blow up the whole idea is a little more, what's to stop the brood of turning upon their sire and then keep doing what they did in their mortal lives, aka, get even more filthy rich at the expense of others, but now with vampiric powers to help? We are speaking people that are at least somewhat ambitious and self-serving, if not outright unscrupulous, dishonest, callous and predatory. Would just the embrace and their sire's words really change that? Or would they try to learn more about the Second Inquisition on their own - and if finding out their sire's lies - try to exploit the group in service of their own interests, like ridding themselves of the wacko elder breathing hippie green spiel upon their necks?

            Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
            A new Discipline for this fledgling bloodline?
            Hahahahahaha, nope, so much NOPE. Aren't the "vanilla disciplines" cool enough for them? Honestly, seeing no reason for those guys - supposing you are dead set into making them - to have some new discipline or even an alternate discipline set, based on the backstory given so far.


            Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post

            In my post on vampire crossover in a Mage campaign, I specified that the ideas were for people who include vamp-crossover and that I don't include it myself. I was criticized for not including vampires in my chronicle, as people thought they should always, automatically be included.
            I think lots of people say some stuff out of rabid fanboyism or their preferences than an actual fair evaluation of a story's context and specifics. I guess taking a look at that thread, might give us some insight on what you're working with and a clearer idea of what you're aiming for - could you give a link?
            Last edited by Baaldam; 10-31-2020, 09:37 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
              When and how? Ok, we are talking of an elder - how old is he or she, 1-3 centuries, 6, 9? How long did it stay in Torpor and when did it awaken from it? Is its enviromental awareness something in exactly those contemporary terms of overpopulation & enviromental collapse you described (implying it has been updating itself getting something like a more modern high school or college education?) or a more visceral/grassroots and consequently more personal & localized "where are the woods of my past nights? and where did all those endless weird-smelling city people come from?!" kind of worldview? Details, details, let's give this old lad or lady some a shape....
              Elder or Ancient, whichever title fits. 5th gen with high levels of Auspex, Dominate and other disciplines that allow the elder to receive information about the world, through thralls, ghouls and telepathic bonds with other Vampires, intermittently, during torpor. If awakening from torpor can't be reconciled with the rest of the concept, scrap it. He has high knowledge abilities. While he might not be fully updated on material science, he understands food chains and the concept of limited natural resources. With Auspex, he may be seeing visions of the future that don't require futurist scientific models. He sees the future and it doesn't look good for kindred or kine.

              Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
              Embracing mortals who he deems to be the most destructive to nature - ergo dislikes - is the opposite of simple, that has endless potential for backfiring in a mind-boggling number of ways.
              Killing them and going to the next enemies of nature would be simple.
              In life, they were concerned with feeding their consumer addiction. As newly turned Vampires, they are concerned with feeding, both to survive and for the sensation it provides. He is his progeny's first source of information about how to do this without leaving a trail back to their haven. The easiest people for them to feed on are people they had social connections to in life, people who shared in exploitive corporate culture. For a human, one effect of being fed on frequently is diminished energy.

              Imagine a press-secretary for a company embroiled in an environmental scandal slipping up during a conference because they have seven blood points. After the conference, she crashes and is forced to question her values. At the moment of reflection, she too is embraced. In unlife, she learns to use her PR skills toward different ends.

              Could the plan backfire? Absolutely. Miscalculation could be the beast working on the ancient from within. He sees the situation as so dire that drastic measures must be taken.

              Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
              Well, would it have contacts in a vampire sect in the first place? By your words this elder is more of an enviromentalist/eco-terrorist, what is not exactly a major (or even minor) ideological focus to any of the major sects in any edition. Not to mention the whole "spent some decades or centuries" in torpor that can put quite the crimp on one's social networking.
              Using the Camarilla as an example, the Prince of a city may actually be blood-bound to someone older, for who the sect is just an instrument. It's less a question of the Ancient's admittance into the sect than is the susceptibility of local sect leaders to Disciplines of lower generation, older Vampires.

              Give him:
              Obfuscate 8 - Old Friends.
              Presence 8 - Perfect Paragon "Appear as an ideal person to whoever sees you."
              Presence 7 - Fires of Conviction "Embolden a crowd to riot in the name of some cause." - Welcome to America 2020.

              The Second Inquisition are human and equally susceptible to FOC. He could appear as an ideal Inquisitor and direct them to attack a corporate headquarters containing some vampires. The siege confirms the belief that vampires feed on the Earth through corporate parasitism. He has no problem sacrificing some progeny to achieve his ends.















              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post

                Elder or Ancient, whichever title fits. 5th gen with high levels of Auspex, Dominate and other disciplines that allow the elder to receive information about the world, through thralls, ghouls and telepathic bonds with other Vampires, intermittently, during torpor. If awakening from torpor can't be reconciled with the rest of the concept, scrap it. He has high knowledge abilities. While he might not be fully updated on material science, he understands food chains and the concept of limited natural resources. With Auspex, he may be seeing visions of the future that don't require futurist scientific models. He sees the future and it doesn't look good for kindred or kine.
                By the books that would require Auspex 6, but honestly i think that's a little overrated and, if i were the ST of a story, would replace it with a Auspex 5, Fortitude 3+ Amalgam (discipline combo) and shed no tears over it, but that's me, i think most lvl 6-7 elder powers are outdated fat that could be downgraded into the 1-5 range since "discipline combos" became a thing since VtDA.

                But back to what matters, the vampire - i'm guessing male, because you have repeatedly described it as he - has some awareness of the world around him even in Torpor through its disciplines, that's fair and good, as the kind of trickle down input he gets should probably lend itself quite well to mystical visions and such. Makes a good bridge between the enviromental perspective and a naturalistic, primal outlook of a vampire from an older time, i dig it.


                Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                In life, they were concerned with feeding their consumer addiction. As newly turned Vampires, they are concerned with feeding, both to survive and for the sensation it provides. He is his progeny's first source of information about how to do this without leaving a trail back to their haven. The easiest people for them to feed on are people they had social connections to in life, people who shared in exploitive corporate culture. For a human, one effect of being fed on frequently is diminished energy.
                And this crashes down the moment they come across your average neonate in a nightclub, a Nosferatu munching on hobos & drug junkies or whatever.
                Not to mention that almost any vampire can exploit the Kiss to facilitate feeding and they obviously will learn that quick. Spread oneself between multiple people you don't care that much about, like lots of subalterns, random people in the workplace restrooms and a number of other options. Gets even more abusable if a neonate develops even basic Dominate or Presence (if not both).

                Also and more importantly, if he embraces someone, this valuable time that he could be "saving the Earth"(tm) is being wasted with teaching the ropes of kindred existence, a subject he might not be that up to date into - remember, visions are not the same as direct, personal experience and we are talking of an elder that does not like contemporary urban night life - to those people he dislikes. That is immenselyimpractical, unless you imagine he has some sort of "Repent from your crimes against the Sacred Mother of Life, sinner!!!!" redemptionist agenda.


                Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                Imagine a press-secretary for a company embroiled in an environmental scandal slipping up during a conference because they have seven blood points. After the conference, she crashes and is forced to question her values. At the moment of reflection, she too is embraced. In unlife, she learns to use her PR skills toward different ends.

                Could the plan backfire? Absolutely. Miscalculation could be the beast working on the ancient from within. He sees the situation as so dire that drastic measures must be taken.

                ​Oh, you think she would have a problem with hunger during conference? How about daylight hours? Not many press conferences happen after the sun has set, being a vampire can put some severe crimp in one's existence at low to mid-management....

                And i very doubt she would question her values that much - we are talking Wolf of Wall Street & American Psycho kind of people here.

                And back on rationales and setup, wouldn't a CEO count far more as a "despoiler to be used/redeemed" than some easily replaceable public relations mid-exec?

                If the elder saw the situation as truly dire his tactics would be far more direct and destructive than all this brood making and proselytizing. Making things happen, trampling all social opposition, is what Dominate, blood bonds and ghouls are for.

                The Beast can lead to thoughless actions, but it tends to the brutal, direct, predatory, savage kind of mistakes. What you are describing is none of that, it's more of an philosophical/religious mania, an "overthinking" kind of irrational, one might say. Maybe some weird Path/Road could go well with it?


                Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                Using the Camarilla as an example, the Prince of a city may actually be blood-bound to someone older, for who the sect is just an instrument. It's less a question of the Ancient's admittance into the sect than is the susceptibility of local sect leaders to Disciplines of lower generation, older Vampires.
                If he had this kind of resources, why did the world turn the way it now is, ever thought of it? An elder or methuselah with that kind of "super-magical puppetry" powers would already have bloodlines, cults and more, if he really cared for that, long before his awakening into contemporary times.

                Not to mention that depending on how long it has been asleep its conception of the sects might be pretty vague - because he cares more about nature than clan, path or sect (that might not even have existed in his time) politics and their petty intriguing.


                Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                Give him:
                Obfuscate 8 - Old Friends.
                Presence 8 - Perfect Paragon "Appear as an ideal person to whoever sees you."
                Presence 7 - Fires of Conviction "Embolden a crowd to riot in the name of some cause." - Welcome to America 2020.

                The Second Inquisition are human and equally susceptible to FOC. He could appear as an ideal Inquisitor and direct them to attack a corporate headquarters containing some vampires. The siege confirms the belief that vampires feed on the Earth through corporate parasitism. He has no problem sacrificing some progeny to achieve his ends.


                And he snaps his fingers and story is mostly over. Care to explain to me how does the Second Inquisition threaten him?

                Hope you don't mind me being quite blunt, but it looks like you're not making a NPC, but a hanger for plot device powers to patch up holes in your story.

                Your aim, the concept you want to explore, seems to be that of the bloodline/cult/organization of "sinners against nature that found the light", with the elder as more of a plot device/springboard for allowing that narrative and of their three way war with the SI and possibly Pentex than a NPC for players to confront and interact with.

                Make the elder a Malkavian or Tzimisce koldun, those would more than account for Auspex and eccentric worldview. Personally i prefer the koldun, exactly because "enviromental agenda" is definitely not what one would expect of them, even though it makes perfect sense for them. Also, it gives him Animalism and Auspex, two great disciplines for investigation, stalking & etc, not to mention Animalism 4 let's the elder possess a variety of animals - and use any mental disciplines he might possess through it, what makes for a creepy cool option a ST can use in a number of creative ways.

                For extra "what crazy $#!t is going on here" i would give him an Animalism 5, Białowieża Kraina 5 combo (4 in each might have been enough, but let's give the "boss/guide" NPC some oomph, eh?) to enable him to wield vitae-fueled powers - and embracing - through possessed animals, making the whole experience of vampirism that much more alien, mystical and world-shattering for his poor, terribly educated childer. Having Vicissitude or not for extra confusion/freak-out optional.
                Last edited by Baaldam; 11-01-2020, 01:52 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                  By the books that would require Auspex 6, but honestly i think that's a little overrated and, if i were the ST of a story, would replace it with a Auspex 5, Fortitude 3+ Amalgam (discipline combo) and shed no tears over it, but that's me, i think most lvl 6-7 elder powers are outdated fat that could be downgraded into the 1-5 range since "discipline combos" became a thing since VtDA.
                  Good.

                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                  But back to what matters, the vampire - i'm guessing male, because you have repeatedly described it as he
                  Yes, he.

                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                  That is immenselyimpractical, unless you imagine he has some sort of "Repent from your crimes against the Sacred Mother of Life, sinner!!!!" redemptionist agenda.
                  That's the idea.

                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                  ​Oh, you think she would have a problem with hunger during conference? How about daylight hours? Not many press conferences happen after the sun has set, being a vampire can put some severe crimp in one's existence at low to mid-management....
                  I was imagining her as a human being repeatedly fed on and the conference-fiasco being the cause of a complete crash that sets her up for unlife in this bloodline. She is the perfect target to embrace and leave at the mercy of the SI. I thought a male vampire throwing a female progeny to the wolves would add to the horror aspect. It would challenge even those who agree with his views to consider who they might be involving themselves with if they side with him.

                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                  The Beast can lead to thoughless actions, but it tends to the brutal, direct, predatory, savage kind of mistakes. What you are describing is none of that, it's more of an philosophical/religious mania, an "overthinking" kind of irrational, one might say. Maybe some weird Path/Road could go well with it?
                  There used to be Path Of Nocturnal Redemption. Is there a V5 version or Humanity subset?

                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                  And he snaps his fingers and story is mostly over. Care to explain to me how does the Second Inquisition threaten him?
                  Powering him down, in some ways, for more prolonged story conflict is better. Sure. This also resolves the question, "Why not act sooner?". Also, if you consider Mage crossover (which Tremere Clan sort of requires), the paradigm in which he went into voluntary torpor did not permit the industrial technology that lead to the current state of things.

                  The Second Inquisition doesn't threaten him personally. If he is making an entrance into a sect, he is doing them a valuable service by redirecting daylight-enemies. Any who would politically oppose his drastic measures would face arguments of, "Well, he is helping us a great deal with a fairly important matter.".

                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                  Your aim, the concept you want to explore, seems to be that of the bloodline/cult/organization of "sinners against nature that found the light", with the elder as more of a plot device/springboard for allowing that narrative and of their three way war with the SI and possibly Pentex than a NPC for players to confront and interact with.
                  As ruthless as he is about putting new Progeny at risk, membership should have great rewards. They fear and love their founder, challenge themselves to become better and gain prestige in the larger sect for handling the Inquisitors. In Werewolf crossover, they might have ties to Glasswalkers.

                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                  Tzimisce koldun, those would more than account for Auspex and eccentric worldview. Personally i prefer the koldun, exactly because "enviromental agenda" is definitely not what one would expect of them, even though it makes perfect sense for them. Also, it gives him Animalism and Auspex, two great disciplines for investigation, stalking & etc, not to mention Animalism 4 let's the elder possess a variety of animals - and use any mental disciplines he might possess through it, what makes for a creepy cool option a ST can use in a number of creative ways.
                  Earthquakes. First stop, Washington DC, Kay Street lobbying district. Just as legislation is being written to allow some environmental atrocity, one of his insiders starts documenting the meeting with her phone. The earthquake hits as she's livestreaming. This event would have religious interpretations among the masses and his bloodline.

                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                  For extra "what crazy $#!t is going on here" i would give him an Animalism 5, Białowieża Kraina 5 combo (4 in each might have been enough, but let's give the "boss/guide" NPC some oomph, eh?) to enable him to wield vitae-fueled powers - and embracing - through possessed animals, making the whole experience of vampirism that much more alien, mystical and world-shattering for his poor, terribly educated childer. Having Vicissitude or not for extra confusion/freak-out optional.
                  As long as he can also do earthquakes. Let's say, in his era, someone invaded his haven and he diablerized them, acquiring the other Kraina. He ate as many souls as was needed to get the fifth rank. Maybe he has some rituals that go with his Białowieża that affect soil bacteria, in addition to plants. So, he could induce high temperature microbes from deep down to act as heat conduits, colonizing upward and turning the shattered pavement into magma. Literally, Mother Earth telling the lobbyists to give up or burn. He can initiate rewilding by force of magic, though it takes time and is more symbolic in scale.

                  Name: Luca Cel Tradat
                  His surname means, "the betrayed", which he interprets through his identification with Mother Earth.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post

                    I was imagining her as a human being repeatedly fed on and the conference-fiasco being the cause of a complete crash that sets her up for unlife in this bloodline. She is the perfect target to embrace and leave at the mercy of the SI. I thought a male vampire throwing a female progeny to the wolves would add to the horror aspect. It would challenge even those who agree with his views to consider who they might be involving themselves with if they side with him.
                    Ah, you meant 7 blood points as in "mortal being semi-regularly fed upon" not a neonate. That explains the whole attending press conferences part.
                    That said, even worse, honestly. A vampire can function quite well with 7 blood points in its system - a normal human being? Good chances of her fainting mid-conference, possibly being taken to a hospital, depending on how average or not is her stamina. Also, would be kind of obvious the vampire feeding on her is to blame, no? Unless you have the guy feeding on her when she sleeps at home, editing her memory at intervals and other shenanigans.


                    Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                    There used to be Path Of Nocturnal Redemption. Is there a V5 version or Humanity subset?
                    ​This one is a Revised era Path, so no idea. Also, a Path that gets lots of flak for being a "total monster munchkin-esque enabler" kind of like old Path of Paradox, if memory tricks me not. Those more familiar with Revised might be better people to confirm or refute this than me.


                    Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                    Powering him down, in some ways, for more prolonged story conflict is better. Sure. This also resolves the question, "Why not act sooner?". Also, if you consider Mage crossover (which Tremere Clan sort of requires), the paradigm in which he went into voluntary torpor did not permit the industrial technology that lead to the current state of things.
                    Nope. Tremere doesn't require Mage crossover. Crossover is always first and foremost an option.

                    And even setting-wise, the jump from mages to vampires happened long ago, bridges already burned, fallen and washed away downriver lots of centuries ago. Even going by Ascension logic (kind of an oxymoron there....), we are speaking of a matter closed long before the Paradigm shifted.

                    In fact, why are we speaking of Tremere in the first place? Nothing about this guy speaks "Tremere" at all except maybe blood magic. That is not proprietary to them in any way and form.


                    Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                    The Second Inquisition doesn't threaten him personally. If he is making an entrance into a sect, he is doing them a valuable service by redirecting daylight-enemies. Any who would politically oppose his drastic measures would face arguments of, "Well, he is helping us a great deal with a fairly important matter.".
                    ​And why would he want make an entrance into a sect? His agenda has nothing to do with Camarilla and Sabbat. The closest to a major group that would be amenable to it would be the Gangrel who collectivelly leave the Camarilla and one might debate that dealing with (supposed) signs of Gehenna as pointed by Xaviar takes priority over that - or not, the two things mixing into a larger "stoping the end of the world!" agenda is perfectly possible and would make some sense.

                    Also, most elders with anything like actual experience on maintaning the Masquerade could say he's doing it in a terribly convoluted and ineffective way that creates more problems than it solves.


                    Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                    As ruthless as he is about putting new Progeny at risk, membership should have great rewards. They fear and love their founder, challenge themselves to become better and gain prestige in the larger sect for handling the Inquisitors. In Werewolf crossover, they might have ties to Glasswalkers.
                    Considering your example of the public relations lady? I very much doubt any childer could love him without several mental problems and/or brainwashing. Fear? Yeah, but guess what. Childer turning against jerk sires that are not as good in dealing with the contemporary world and succeding because of it is kind of a major trope of the setting. Damn, the sects exist because of an Ur-example harkening to the Middle Ages, a little something called Anarch Revolt, you know.

                    Not to mention, we are speaking of people that, being all middle to high management people from major industrial businesses, are already more cutthroat and ruthless than your average joe or jane. Ganking that bastard, preferably through Diablerie and freeing themselves of him, would be the ultimate reward for most of them, with being able to actually join kindred society in a more "normal" footing as a close second.

                    And about ties with the Glass Walkers - reasons, please. We are speaking of a vampire at least a few centuries old. His sensibilities about "Mother Earth" might be closer to those of the "not quite so urbane" other tribes, that kind of disparage/despise the Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers as "Urrah", unclean.


                    Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                    Earthquakes. First stop, Washington DC, Kay Street lobbying district. Just as legislation is being written to allow some environmental atrocity, one of his insiders starts documenting the meeting with her phone. The earthquake hits as she's livestreaming. This event would have religious interpretations among the masses and his bloodline.
                    Meh, earthquakes happen and are quite mundane though scary. Some specialists might bring up that one was freaky from a tectonic point of view but lots of people will shrug and change channels.

                    You want "it's a sign of the heavens!!!" reactions? A murder of crows enters congress and watch the whole thing from their perchs near the ceiling. Koldun with Auspex & Genius Loci combo can glean who will vote for what in the session. Vote starts. Crows come down and peck one eye out of each congressperson that intented to vote for the anti-enviromental bill. That will freak out people in the interwebs and beyond - lots of kindred too, because that kind of freakiness screams Masquerade breach.


                    Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                    As long as he can also do earthquakes. Let's say, in his era, someone invaded his haven and he diablerized them, acquiring the other Kraina. He ate as many souls as was needed to get the fifth rank.
                    How about he learned those Krainas and perfected his skills through the ages on his own or with teachers? Serial diablerie tends to erode morality & sanity, possibly leading to wightdom. Just sayin'....


                    Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                    Maybe he has some rituals that go with his Białowieża that affect soil bacteria, in addition to plants. So, he could induce high temperature microbes from deep down to act as heat conduits, colonizing upward and turning the shattered pavement into magma. Literally, Mother Earth telling the lobbyists to give up or burn. He can initiate rewilding by force of magic, though it takes time and is more symbolic in scale.
                    Ever asked yourself why Garou haven't done something like that? Because I'm pretty sure they would have a much easier time attempting such a thing than a vampire. And honestly causing volcanic bursts under people is anything but symbolic....absurdly flashy like hell that, let's be honest.

                    And again, the guy feels all over the place in what his aims, methods and capacities are. A little too many eggs in the same basket for my taste, imho.
                    Last edited by Baaldam; 11-02-2020, 10:34 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                      Name: Luca Cel Tradat
                      His surname means, "the betrayed", which he interprets through his identification with Mother Earth.
                      Tradat? That comes from romanian - at least that's what a quick Google search told me - so i'm guessing romanian, ancient romanian or some other balkan romance language. Is he still acting on his "homeland" or has the elder moved between regions, countries or even continents through the ages?

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                      • #12
                        My setting has an apocryphal Antediluvian who never embraced and mastered the discipline of Genesis which is like a botanical version of Animalism/Protean. She may have Transcended the Curse by becoming a World Tree. vestiges of her wisdom was preserved by various cults who worship her as possibly Lilith, Eve, or even Idunn. This would work for the concept of this Thread.


                        It is a time for great deeds!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                          You want "it's a sign of the heavens!!!" reactions? A murder of crows enters congress and watch the whole thing from their perchs near the ceiling. Koldun with Auspex & Genius Loci combo can glean who will vote for what in the session. Vote starts. Crows come down and peck one eye out of each congressperson that intented to vote for the anti-enviromental bill. That will freak out people in the interwebs and beyond - lots of kindred too, because that kind of freakiness screams Masquerade breach.
                          If he can accomplish this through combined disciplines alone, there is no need for him to create a bloodline as described in OP. It requires hundreds of crows moving quietly or the Congress ignoring the influx of crows. Obfuscate 5, Cloak the Gathering, if we allow small crows to get more numerical coverage than you would get cloaking human-sized beneficiaries.

                          Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                          How about he learned those Krainas and perfected his skills through the ages on his own or with teachers? Serial diablerie tends to erode morality & sanity, possibly leading to wightdom. Just sayin'....
                          The reason I suggested diablerie is:
                          "When confronted with a rival or a Kraina they do not recognize, the magic inherent to this form compels them to attack the intruder. For this reason, most koldun prefer isolation and almost never share knowledge except with their own childer."

                          If there is a way around this, I would actually prefer him knowing multiple paths, learned over time.

                          Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                          And again, the guy feels all over the place in what his aims, methods and capacities are. A little too many eggs in the same basket for my taste, imho
                          Narrowing the scope of the post to this single event is a more realistic endeavor. A simple plot-point, no bloodline, and an outline for an elder-vampire template (to be filled at a later date). Make it addable to any chronicle.

                          Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

                          Tradat? That comes from romanian - at least that's what a quick Google search told me - so i'm guessing romanian, ancient romanian or some other balkan romance language. Is he still acting on his "homeland" or has the elder moved between regions, countries or even continents through the ages?
                          Yes. I like the idea of Koldunic Sorcery. If it is more fitting that he come from Romania to justify access to the discipline, then that's the best option. The question becomes, when did he become aware of English becoming the language of commerce and the ascendancy of the United States? If he has spent less time in torpor than I described in the OP, the move from Romania to the United States would be an adaptation to the geopolitical reality that is easily explained.

                          The eye-pecking incident might be something he pulls off before heading back to the wooded, hilly terrain of his homeland. There, he can lay in wait and rearrange the forest landscape to his advantage, a few former Romanian Special Forces ghouls at his command. The difference in time zone with U.S. would allow him to better coordinate and time events over 24hr days with allies or progeny, if they get added to the story.

                          With the Masquerade slightly shattered, questions about how the Second Inquisition would react become interesting. They would clearly understand that a powerful vampire has done this and easily interpret the message. Do they appeal to Pentex for funds or reconsider their pursuit of vampires out of respect for the message? Given that the SI is not a single organization, different inquisitor-groups might have varied reactions and responses.

                          I think they made language a merit across all lines, scrapping linguistics. I have met a fair number of people who could speak four or five widely different languages. So, Romanian, Italian, German, English (maybe Polish). Let the Disciplines determine what Abilities he would focus on first. Then, I could flesh out from there.

                          We have two branches of Koldun, Auspex 5, Fortitude 3, Obfuscate 5, Dominate 5,

                          From memory:
                          Empathy
                          Intimidation
                          Subterfuge
                          Stealth
                          Animal Ken

                          High Mental and then Social Attributes:
                          Intel
                          Perception
                          Charisma
                          Manipulation
                          Dexterity, reasonably high

                          Suggestions?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                            My setting has an apocryphal Antediluvian who never embraced and mastered the discipline of Genesis which is like a botanical version of Animalism/Protean. She may have Transcended the Curse by becoming a World Tree. vestiges of her wisdom was preserved by various cults who worship her as possibly Lilith, Eve, or even Idunn. This would work for the concept of this Thread.
                            Do tell. Unfortunate she never embraced, but fitting transcendence in that way. Genesis is your invention?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post

                              If he can accomplish this through combined disciplines alone, there is no need for him to create a bloodline as described in OP. It requires hundreds of crows moving quietly or the Congress ignoring the influx of crows. Obfuscate 5, Cloak the Gathering, if we allow small crows to get more numerical coverage than you would get cloaking human-sized beneficiaries.
                              ​As you said, crows are not exactly large animals and somewhat stealthy by nature, depeding on coordination, distribution and patience Obfuscate might not even be necessary as there are probably a lot of spaces close to the ceiling where birds might hide or just stay put without drawing attention. But indeed, definitely most helpful.


                              Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                              The reason I suggested diablerie is:
                              "When confronted with a rival or a Kraina they do not recognize, the magic inherent to this form compels them to attack the intruder. For this reason, most koldun prefer isolation and almost never share knowledge except with their own childer."

                              If there is a way around this, I would actually prefer him knowing multiple paths, learned over time.
                              Well, i would say it could be just the tipical Tzimisce territoriality at play instead of something inherent to Kraina. And well do not recognize is important either way. A Koldun that was skilled at diplomacy or known for being helpful to the clan or kolduns as a whole might be able to get around this issue (if it even has mechanic bearing and is not just a case unreliable narrator at work), i'd say.


                              Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                              Narrowing the scope of the post to this single event is a more realistic endeavor. A simple plot-point, no bloodline, and an outline for an elder-vampire template (to be filled at a later date). Make it addable to any chronicle.
                              Yes, streamlining ideas to better work on how things fit together is advisable.


                              Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                              Yes. I like the idea of Koldunic Sorcery. If it is more fitting that he come from Romania to justify access to the discipline, then that's the best option. The question becomes, when did he become aware of English becoming the language of commerce and the ascendancy of the United States? If he has spent less time in torpor than I described in the OP, the move from Romania to the United States would be an adaptation to the geopolitical reality that is easily explained.
                              An american or NATO spy in the tail end of the Cold War accidentally disturbs his resting place while in mission or escaping enemies? Or a wandering antropologist, archeologist, folklorist, tourist, if you want Luca's awakening to happen closer to the 90s or present.


                              Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                              The eye-pecking incident might be something he pulls off before heading back to the wooded, hilly terrain of his homeland. There, he can lay in wait and rearrange the forest landscape to his advantage, a few former Romanian Special Forces ghouls at his command. The difference in time zone with U.S. would allow him to better coordinate and time events over 24hr days with allies or progeny, if they get added to the story.
                              And now my mind is going back to some Cold War era survivor as a ghoul bodyguard or agent. And that could actually make an interesting set-up for an oddball chronicle, a childe of Luca and his coterie mates travelling from Romania to the US - or maybe his already lives there and his sire just contacts him - to help set up things to facilitate this crazy stunt of his.

                              edit: it just crossed my mind that Lodin's ghouls in the flashback sequence of Ashes to Ashes could make a good basis for a cold war era pseudo-Mission Impossible team with only minimal tweaking.

                              Originally posted by HorizonParty2021 View Post
                              With the Masquerade slightly shattered, questions about how the Second Inquisition would react become interesting. They would clearly understand that a powerful vampire has done this and easily interpret the message. Do they appeal to Pentex for funds or reconsider their pursuit of vampires out of respect for the message? Given that the SI is not a single organization, different inquisitor-groups might have varied reactions and responses.
                              Yup, without some kind of forewarning or context - like maybe similar incidents occuring first in Romania, Moldova or neighboring countries - i can see the many organizations disgreeing mightly over what the heck just happened and why, some of them misingterpreting it in all number of ways. Damn, there might be that kind of debate even within circles of the same organization.

                              And between us, most kindred would possibly be as dumbfounded by the event, if not more. Though i can see some Camarilla conservatives saying it's all a stupid masquerade-breaching Anarch/Malkavian prank and they should all be left to burn under the sun.

                              About stats, no big suggestions, for the moment at least.
                              Last edited by Baaldam; 11-03-2020, 02:38 PM.

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