House Carna discussion thread- The Good, the Bad, and the Witchy

[DrHappyAngry]

"Carna always found this ritual unwholesome, but playing with blood was a dirty business. Calling on her vitae to give strength, she used a warm spoon to pop free the unconscious victim’s eyeball. She sighed, quite humanlike, as she twisted the orb from its tether and placed it in her mouth.

"Holding her hand out, the eye still in place on her tongue, her clanmate placed a heavy knife on Carna’s palm. Without hesitation, she pulled the tip of the victim’s tongue out between his teeth, and sawed through the muscular organ. She placed the tip in her mouth, and proceeded to swallow the two components as her fellow Tremere treated the man’s bleeding orifices.

"Carna turned to study the Thracian text on the wall overlooking this entire macabre scene. The man had resisted her mental compulsions, had refused to translate the work willingly, and would have never succumbed to torture. It was a sad necessity that she would have to take his eye and tongue to read and speak the ancient language known only to him."

That's actually a Tremere ritual, Eyes of Babel, from V20 Rites of Blood. I want to say it may have appeared in other books, too. So it's not unique to Carna's style.

Not that I'm against house Carna or adding more styles, nor do I particularly care if they incorporate Wicca, hollywood witchcraft or inspiration from real old school paganism. I still find the injection of variety and options interesting rather than them all practicing the same style. I mean look at the Hollow Ones, they incorporate all kinds of random stuff.

[Resplendent Fire]

That's actually a Tremere ritual, Eyes of Babel, from V20 Rites of Blood. I want to say it may have appeared in other books, too. So it's not unique to Carna's style.

Not that I'm against house Carna or adding more styles, nor do I particularly care if they incorporate Wicca, hollywood witchcraft or inspiration from real old school paganism. I still find the injection of variety and options interesting rather than them all practicing the same style. I mean look at the Hollow Ones, they incorporate all kinds of random stuff.

Yeah, I agree. More styles are good.

My point wasn't that it was strictly Carna's style, but more the idea that House Carna does some kind of new agey sweetness and light version of blood magic was nonsensical.

[CTPhipps]

Yeah, I agree. More styles are good.

My point wasn't that it was strictly Carna's style, but more the idea that House Carna does some kind of new agey sweetness and light version of blood magic was nonsensical.

They're vampires and blood witches.

Which is something that V:TM has had forever but was never nice.

[Resplendent Fire]

They're vampires and blood witches.

Which is something that V:TM has had forever but was never nice.

Thank you!

[CTPhipps]

The odd fact about the complaint here is that it was one that was addressed in another line as early as 1st Edition Mage: The Ascension. One of the things about their Tradition Book was the fact that the Verbena REALLY DISLIKE New Agers. A lot of their training is designed to beat the happy, sanitized Walt Disney version of paganism out of the heads of their followers and instill a dark, bloody, Lilith worshiping World of Darkness witchcraft in their heads.

Human sacrifice, Isle 8, monstrous curses, Isle 9.

[Dwight]

The odd fact about the complaint here is that it was one that was addressed in another line as early as 1st Edition Mage: The Ascension. One of the things about their Tradition Book was the fact that the Verbena REALLY DISLIKE New Agers. A lot of their training is designed to beat the happy, sanitized Walt Disney version of paganism out of the heads of their followers and instill a dark, bloody, Lilith worshiping World of Darkness witchcraft in their heads.

Human sacrifice, Isle 8, monstrous curses, Isle 9.

Except they got brought into the fold come revised

[CTPhipps]

Except they got brought into the fold come revised

I wasn't a big fan of some changes done to the Revised Traditions, I admit.

What? Me? Old School!

Never!

I drifted out of Mage when the Technocracy stopped being fascists.

[MyWifeIsScary]

Finding OG witches suitable for unlife is gonna be really hard in our modern world. It would be totally unreasonable to assume HC could find enough neonates in their city to form a chantry. But also it's a lot harder for them to embrace a promising person who would then be interested and capable of drawing from... what paradigm do they use again? The Hermetic stuff is pretty palatable to a newcomer. Paganism? far less so.

and, y'know, a good chunk of the doylist reasoning for house carna is that they wanted magic characters to be easy and accessible to anyone. The other half is of doylist reasoning would be every conservative faction needs to be a Heel for a more... what's a term i can use that won't be nitpicked... neoliberal Face?

point being. most players who pick HC over HT are going to be... well, less interested in playing the domineering arogant types Tremere are known for. Less OG paganism, more holywood: even if house Carna is supposed to be just as mean as HT, it caters towards players who aren't.

[CTPhipps]

Finding OG witches suitable for unlife is gonna be really hard in our modern world. It would be totally unreasonable to assume HC could find enough neonates in their city to form a chantry. But also it's a lot harder for them to embrace a promising person who would then be interested and capable of drawing from... what paradigm do they use again? The Hermetic stuff is pretty palatable to a newcomer. Paganism? far less so.

and, y'know, a good chunk of the doylist reasoning for house carna is that they wanted magic characters to be easy and accessible to anyone. The other half is of doylist reasoning would be every conservative faction needs to be a Heel for a more... what's a term i can use that won't be nitpicked... neoliberal Face?

point being. most players who pick HC over HT are going to be... well, less interested in playing the domineering arogant types Tremere are known for. Less OG paganism, more holywood: even if house Carna is supposed to be just as mean as HT, it caters towards players who aren't.

Not really. Just grab some people and train them.

How do the Bahari recruit people?

Or Tzimisce?

Or hell, the Sabbat as a whole.

You brainwash them to join your sick murder cult. Which is what any vampire religion will be.

[Resplendent Fire]

"The founder of this house twisted off a guy's eye and cut out his tongue in the flavor text. This inspires me to play Prue from Charmed!" no one said ever.

Some other stuff:

Hedge magic is a thing in the WoD, especially thanks to "mythic threads" per revised or whatever people want to call them otherwise.
Getting involved in modern paganism does not in fact preclude someone from having some magical ability
Not all modern paganism is "new age" or "hollywood witches"
Modern pagans are able to discern the difference between practicing a real world religion and modeling mysticism off The Craft or something, and tend to find the latter fun but not actually a signpost to actual practice
If anyone can tell if someone's a practitioner, struggling but with potential, or doesn't have potential at all, it'd be a blood magic practitioner deciding who to Embrace to bring into House Carna.
I tend to think modern paganism in the WoD is going to at least have a bias toward actual functional practice, even if the majority can't do it.

Headcanon House Carna as new age Willow Rosenbergs all you want, but I don't think the text supports that in the slightest.

[MyWifeIsScary]

Not really. Just grab some people and train them.

How do the Bahari recruit people?

Or Tzimisce?

Or hell, the Sabbat as a whole.

You brainwash them to join your sick murder cult. Which is what any vampire religion will be.

None of these folk are in the Camarilla, where there are standards. HC are.

[Gryffon15]

The Ventrue are the leaders of the Camarilla and they beat their philosophy and etiquette into their childer with years of training, mental domination, and every other tool available. Same with House Tremere who add a communal blood bond to the mix for them.

I personally prefer House Carna as an Anarch thing although I suppose a domain could decide to back Carna over Tremere, but either way, indoctrination is just as much apart of the Camarilla as any other vampiric sect. The Camarilla isn’t exactly the easiest thing for a well-adjusted human to adapt to either so saying that House Carna is so particularly egregious just feels obtuse to me.

[Resplendent Fire]

The flavor text in V5 shows that House Carna is part of the greater Clan Tremere, even if not Schrekt's House Tremere itself. Carna herself has been in the Camarilla for centuries.

[Gryffon15]

Aye, which is fair, just not how I personally like to go about things. But we ain’t here to talk about my table so thank ya for throwing this out there, as I honestly don’t actually keep up with V5 much except from the broad scale stuff.

[CTPhipps]

None of these folk are in the Camarilla, where there are standards. HC are.

V5 says the Camarilla is riddled with Blood Cults that do the exact same thing.

The flavor text in V5 shows that House Carna is part of the greater Clan Tremere, even if not Schrekt's House Tremere itself. Carna herself has been in the Camarilla for centuries.

Yes, she's the former Prince of Marsailles and a serial killer.

It probably drives Karl insane she's undoubtedly set up her own alternative magical options with the Camarilla. Worse, that they have to work together against the Assamites.

She WAS defecting to the Anarchs but apparently stopped when she realized House Tremere was in no position to go after her.