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  • #31
    Originally posted by Resplendent Fire View Post
    VDA5 would be splendid, although I feel like a lot of the changes in V5 are meant to be post-Withering so it would be interesting to see where it'd go.

    Right now the one thing I really want is already in the Companion, and that's just material on coteries.
    Is this "Withering" thing an actual canon thing or is it something made up by the fanbase to explain V5's shift in mechanics?


    Jade Kingdom Warrior

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

      Is this "Withering" thing an actual canon thing or is it something made up by the fanbase to explain V5's shift in mechanics?
      Its from one of the Gehenna book scenarios.

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      • #33
        After the V5 Sabbat book I mostly wish for a V5 Ashirra book. Or at least a Damascus/Bagdad by Night one. And I really hope that the arabic clan versions get new symbols and not the gibberish pseudo-arabic ones they had before. Something along the lines of the new Banu Hakim clan symbol would be nice. Or something calligraphic.

        Also an extra ' Advanced/optional rules companion' with something like 'rule modules' would be nice. Like the advanced combat rules in the core book but for other aspects of the game. Rules for elders, rules for more than five powers per discpline while at the same time keeping the 'maximum 5 dots'-rule, alternative diablerie rules that follow the rules of the memoriam, etc.


        "Life's barely long enough to get good at one thing. So be careful what you get good at."

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        • #34
          Originally posted by kninj View Post
          Second Inquisition book: We've heard this may be coming in the future anyway, I think it's a great idea and I'm looking forward to it.
          Though hopefully less Blade knock offs than the ones in Fall of London.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Shakanaka View Post

            Is this "Withering" thing an actual canon thing or is it something made up by the fanbase to explain V5's shift in mechanics?

            It was a plot thing in the Gehenna book, which was ignored by V5's timeline advancement. A lot of people talk about it as a thing, but it's not actually in V5 at all. People just use it for self-justification of why the scale is different, rather than just accepting that the overall scale of V5's power levels are different.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by elmerg View Post


              It was a plot thing in the Gehenna book, which was ignored by V5's timeline advancement. A lot of people talk about it as a thing, but it's not actually in V5 at all. People just use it for self-justification of why the scale is different, rather than just accepting that the overall scale of V5's power levels are different.
              (Different he mean way lower btw)

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              • #37
                Originally posted by blailton View Post

                (Different he mean way lower btw)
                Yes, but that's representative of the entire scale being DIFFERENT than what it was in prior ediitons. People ignore the scale across the board is different, lower overall; it's not meant to have the same 'Joe Neonate has seventeen things at five after six months of play because XP glut and gaming the front-end of the system' power scale that prior editions did.

                But way to low-key edition war, bud!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by elmerg View Post


                  It was a plot thing in the Gehenna book, which was ignored by V5's timeline advancement. A lot of people talk about it as a thing, but it's not actually in V5 at all. People just use it for self-justification of why the scale is different, rather than just accepting that the overall scale of V5's power levels are different.
                  Seems to me referring to it as a possible explanation is acceptance.

                  Then you have people who don't like that you can't do the really powerful methuselah stuff in V5, yet V5 uses the same continuity ... because V5 has no in-book explanation. This has nothing to do with how fast PCs advanced in previous editions, but rather with established setting events such as Menele causing a volcanic eruption with blood magic, or another methuselah using presence to manipulate an entire city.

                  For the record, I believe Martin Ericsson referred to the withering and the beckoning both as the cause of the setting's overall depowering, and V5 was explicitly presented as post-Gehenna, just a different scenario from those in the book. It didn't reach its logical conclusion and didn't work the same way, but it's a thing I believe was said early on. I'd look for it in the video from the grand masquerade in 2017 or 2018 (I think) but I don't want to watch any more of that guy than I absolutely have to.

                  I don't mind the lower power level or lack of Disciplines at 6+. That's fine.

                  Anyway, my original statement was that I personally feel like the withering explains the changes, so it's not something anyone else needs. I just object to the notion that finding or having an explanation for the transition is somehow a lack of acceptance. My refusal to touch V5 until this month was a lack of acceptance. This is me accepting it.
                  Last edited by Resplendent Fire; 11-20-2020, 06:39 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Gehenna War. with perspectives from all sides of the conflict.
                    Infernalism - from the common and boringly spooky Nergali to 'Radical Inquisition' Molochim to some regional and crossover phenomena like possessed or cursed vampires; new, enigmatic bloodlines mistakenly identified as a Baali offshot, etc.
                    Anything Paths (like Chaining the Beast)
                    Vampire warfare/espionage books, like Midnight Siege, one of my favorite ones from the Revised.
                    Second Inquisition would be great.
                    ​Anything Sabbat.
                    Anything metaplot heavy - Tal'Mahe'Ra, Inconnu you name it.
                    Vampire Nomads! not just Sabbat but any vamps who chose the unlife on the road
                    Regional supplements and sourcebooks for games set in South America, MENA, India, Central Asia and Eastern Europe. I would gladly help with one.
                    Cities by Night are ALWAYS welcome.

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                    • #40
                      A city making guide similar to Requiem's Damnation City?


                      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
                        A city making guide similar to Requiem's Damnation City?
                        I would be all for something like this. As much as I love the backstory and the setting, I really want more information and guidance on the mechanics from a Storyteller’s point of view.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by kninj View Post
                          V5 Ancient Rome: A chronicle and setting guide for playing in the Ancient Roman era - Dark Ages would be cool as well but I think Rome is such an interesting period for Vampires and I'd love to have more lore on that and advice for playing around that time.
                          I'd love to see something like this, if for no other reason to see what the various European Clans considered their creations myth(s) to be in pre-Christian times.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Ideon View Post
                            I'd love to see something like this, if for no other reason to see what the various European Clans considered their creations myth(s) to be in pre-Christian times.
                            I think we had a thread talking about that earlier this year. I can't recall much of specifics about it though, other than that there was a pre-Republic snake goddess cult in central Italy that would make an interesting if odd potential Setite origin.

                            Last time I did anything with Dark Ages, I had the generally accepted mythology be that the 13 founders were fallen angels, with the High Clan ones having fallen for "noble" reasons and the Low Clans for base ones. (I tend to ignore the 2nd gen altogether.)

                            (In a more perfect world, I like to believe the three historical lines would've been Vampire the Dark Ages, Werewolf: Savage Rome, and Mage: Victorian Twilight, and each having books about the other groups during that time. Mage the Dark Ages, Savage Rome by Night, Victorian Werewolf, etc. But I am weird.)


                            What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                            Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Ideon View Post
                              I'd love to see something like this, if for no other reason to see what the various European Clans considered their creations myth(s) to be in pre-Christian times.
                              I'd love something like that as well, but the more I think about it, the more problematic it gets. Best case scenario is they outline a bunch of options to deal with that and create branched characters for the various potential mythologies. Worst case they'd double down on just one canon preChristian origin. Do you shoe horn in the Caine story in a world where barely anybody outside the Levant had heard the story? Do you have another story, with possibly multiple origins for different clans, and if so what are they? Do you go with the Caine story's a myth or metaphor that gained traction later? Do you double down on the Caine story but make it so that only the very oldest vampires knew it was true and most vampires in the ancient era weren't aware of it? It's definitely a bit of a minefield with a lot of potential to screw it up. Anything but presenting a bunch of possibilities, ala Gehenna/Beckett's Jyhad Diary story hooks, seems like a bad idea. If they went with the idea of pick one of these many different scenarios for how things worked, it could be really cool, though, especially if they present NPCs in the lore with multiple options for if X is true or they believe it than they behave this way, but if Y is true or they believe it the NPC goes this way. Anything else is too much risk of pissing a lot of people off or getting things completely wrong.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by DrHappyAngry View Post
                                Anything but presenting a bunch of possibilities, ala Gehenna/Beckett's Jyhad Diary story hooks, seems like a bad idea.
                                Given the era, it would almost have to be.

                                Vampires are parasites, and their Roman hosts' beliefs were polytheistic and syncretic, more willing to absorb and merge foreign ideas with their own to preserve societal order than to stamp them out outright. You'd probably have vampiric scholars who believe their particular theories were the One True Way and willing to shed blood over it, but you'd have just as many trying to fit other beliefs into their own model, or use competing ideas to explain the Clans' different strengths and weaknesses. Ancients would have beliefs placing their origin anywhere from Utnapishtim to Angra Mainyu to the striges to Pluto and Orpheus, and you'd have vampires debating, arguing, synthesizing, and/or ignoring all of the above, and it'd be great.

                                ...though, given that VtM seems fixated on the Cain[e] mythos being the actual One True Way, it's probably for the best that book isn't a thing, I guess.

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