What books do you want?

[Resplendent Fire]

...more in-character, unreliable narrator babble in italic? Like cam and anarch books?

e_e

No. I mean discussion about what elders are like.

In the unlikely event that such a book came to pass, it'd have the italic parts no matter what so why worry?

[Jackob]

Given how 2020 has turned out, I wouldn't actually mind a "timeline/metaplot update book". I don't think any real-world event since World War II will have had this much effect on the unlife and world of Vampire, so a book on how the Pandemic changed things could be interesting.

Also, a new edition of Dark Ages.

[JezMiller]

Given how 2020 has turned out, I wouldn't actually mind a "timeline/metaplot update book". I don't think any real-world event since World War II will have had this much effect on the unlife and world of Vampire, so a book on how the Pandemic changed things could be interesting.

Also, a new edition of Dark Ages.

Achilli spoke a little about this on a recent podcast. He seemed open to the idea of 2020 metaplot updates but understandably cautious about doing them while people are still bearing the brunt.

I absolutely agree about a new Dark Ages, though

[JezMiller]

What would be the point of having an Elder book when the entire settings mechanic dynamic has been capsized to be weaker and Disciplines are only stuck at a flat 5 dots, which is merely Anchillae tier? I doubt they will ever do any Elder material with the current design philosophy surrounding V5, they want to keep things relegated to a weak street or neonate-tier style of play only.

I take a different view. I like elders because they're old. They've seen a lot of history. They've lived through the Transylvania Chronicles or the Giovanni Chronicles or the Ventrue Chronicles or whatever. They're a rich source of the lore and backstory which is Masquerade's great strength and makes books like BJD possible

What I did not like about them in the earlier editions was that they were peers of the Great bloody Cthulhu. I'd rather have them as old, powerful vampires than demigods. I'm aware that others feel differently and like the elders-as-demigods aspect as part and parcel of the setting - chacun à son goût. But I don't personally see the lack of attributes at 6+ as destroying the point of an elder book. It might, for instance, consider Touchstones, elder coteries, questions of memory (some rules for how easily an elder remembers an event five hundred or a thousand years ago without resorting to Memoriam would be useful).

It might also challenge a few too-entrenched stereotypes. (Off the top of my head, remember the scene in LA by Night when Hester uses a bowl of water to communicate with Strauss? We can probably assume that Strauss has been doing "video conferencing" since the middle ages. He's unlikely to struggle conceptually with facetime on an iPhone, as the "elders as anachronisms" schtick assumes).

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

I absolutely agree about a new Dark Ages, though

Out of curiosity, why? Why not simply use V5 rules in a VDA setting?

[Jackob]

Out of curiosity, why? Why not simply use V5 rules in a VDA setting?

Well, they made a 20th Anniversary Edition of Dark Ages after V20...

Anyway, there a number of things you'd need for a Dark Ages book that V5 doesn't have (yet), like all the Clans, at least a couple of Bloodlines, non-merged Disciplines, a different, more expansive section on weapons and armor. As well as how the clans looked in the Middle Ages. By then, you might as well just add some historical information and make it its own book.

Also, I absolutely love Dark Ages, so a new edition would be great.

[MyWifeIsScary]

"Non-merged disciplines"
Whut, who are you? Royalty? The Changes to vampires in V5 isn't part of some withering, they're a hard retcon; Those disciplines were always merged, and the V5 weapon/armour table is inclusive of all possible options. Once we have all the clans, V5 rules cover everything except infernalism. all you want for a dark ages game is maybe some vampire alt-historical information and maybe a bloodline or two (But you can invent bloodlines pretty easily)

[Spencer from The Hills]

"Non-merged disciplines"
Whut, who are you? Royalty? The Changes to vampires in V5 isn't part of some withering, they're a hard retcon

The absence of discipline paths complicates necromancy in particular, for games set before the Family Reunion. Samedi, Giovanni, Nagaraja etc. can also use the same powers and ceremonies because as Hecata (by default), they're all comparring notes. Whereas even a generation ago, very few of them were. So what did Cappadocians and Giovanni Cappadocians know before they met Samedi, Pisanob, Mla Watu and Nagaraja, before the Harbingers spent a few centuries in the underworld and when the Giovanni were still fairly new to being kindred?

[Jackob]

"Non-merged disciplines"
Whut, who are you? Royalty? The Changes to vampires in V5 isn't part of some withering, they're a hard retcon; Those disciplines were always merged, and the V5 weapon/armour table is inclusive of all possible options. Once we have all the clans, V5 rules cover everything except infernalism. all you want for a dark ages game is maybe some vampire alt-historical information and maybe a bloodline or two (But you can invent bloodlines pretty easily)

I am not 100% up on it, but if I understood correctly, Oblivion is a merger of Obtenebration and Necromancy, which begs the questions why the Cappadocians Embraced the Giovanni if their powers were already around.

Also, the weapons and armor table at the very least needs ruled for shields. But also for the types of armor that were around in the Middle Ages. And I would personally like a bit more gradiation so there is a diffference between an arming sword, a battle axe and a mace, though I am probably a minority here.

[Muad'Dib]

I am not 100% up on it, but if I understood correctly, Oblivion is a merger of Obtenebration and Necromancy, which begs the questions why the Cappadocians Embraced the Giovanni if their powers were already around.

Maybe they did it for the Rituals, or maybe they needed the Giovanni's influence over mortals, including their wealth?

[JezMiller]

Out of curiosity, why? Why not simply use V5 rules in a VDA setting?

You could, but it would be interesting to see if they could combine the medieval Roads with the new morality system, there would be different skills on the character sheet, you could have an update on developments in Cainite society... plenty of scope for a book, or at least a V5 medieval companion

[Jackob]

Maybe they did it for the Rituals, or maybe they needed the Giovanni's influence over mortals, including their wealth?

Well, the story so far has always been that they did it for the Giovanni family’s Necromancy, which allowed a different and unique insight ito death, specifically dealing with Wraith and the Underworld/Shadowlands.

[omenseer]

As I understand it, the Cappadocians were originally more geared towards the physical side of necromancy while the Giovanni understood the spiritual side of necromancy better than they did.

[MyWifeIsScary]

v5 could explain it with rituals?
personally, i think the physical Mortis practices are second rate compared to the necromancy paths like sephulcre and ash, to the point where i wonder why the capadocians never realized it and didn't switch long ago. Having there be little/no difference on the main path may be a good way to equalize things.
/devils advocate.

[Shakanaka]

As I understand it, the Cappadocians were originally more geared towards the physical side of necromancy while the Giovanni understood the spiritual side of necromancy better than they did.

Yep. For a V5 Dark Ages book to make sense, they'd have to establish a clear difference in Necromantic schools (i.e Paths), which is something V5 clearly has abandoned as a game philosophy (that is no shoehorned ""streamlines"").